So, owners what range are you getting ?

[dgpcolorado]

I have an SL and use the Energy page of the Nav almost constantly. It really halps me to drive efficiently.

I do have a question - Does holding the accelerator at zero energy as displayed on the energy usage page the same as Neutral?

Yes, it is pretty close to "neutral" if you hold the energy screen display at zero. I find that a lot easier to do in Eco on my 2012 because it is power-mapped, as opposed to acceleration mapping for D. (Holding the accelerator position constant in Eco will give the same power, regardless of speed or terrain, and if that power is zero it will stay that way until I move my foot.) Whether that's true for 2013 and later LEAFs I couldn't say.

This, of course, is the way to coast in "neutral" without actually shifting, but it is more difficult to do.

 

[mbender]

Do you want to quantify the benefit of constantly determining when to coast and not coast and then shifting to neutral? No one has provided any data, e.g. the 'significant' range increase by coasting.

If you're thinking that 'hard' about coasting, you might start to consider not driving more than 55 mph, or better yet never accelerating more than three dots.

True, technically there is a bit of decision-making/algorithmic "overhead", but in my experience it quickly becomes second nature and demands very little (energy for) thinking, per se. (Like much of driving, I might assert: i.e., what is the "energetic cost" to the need to be constantly aware of one's environment, monitoring other vehicles' positions, speeds, directions, "intents", etc., as well as our own, and make decisions based on all of that information?! If we tried to quantify all that and let it overly concern or intimidate us, we might not even drive in the first place.)

So, yes, if simplicity of mental activity is a primary concern and one has plenty of time, then driving in one mode at the slowest legal speed in the right or middle lane (oh no, another decision!) is probably the way to go for high efficiency. And admittedly, this is something I do at times with cruise control on highways when I want to minimize thinking about 'active' driving. But here the question seemed to be more specifically about the efficiency benefits of coasting in neutral over using regen, independent of the 'energetics' of decision-making.

As for providing data, I'll leave that to the experimental physicists here; I'm in the theoretical camp. ;-)

 

[johnrhansen]

I never shift to neutral. I just keep pressing on the gas a bit. so if I get one green dot or one white dot. it's not that much of a difference.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I never shift to neutral. I just keep pressing on the gas a bit. so if I get one green dot or one white dot. it's not that much of a difference.

Gas? My car doesn't use gas...

The SV/SL models have an energy meter that shows the kW being used/generated. Keeping that at zero is considerably more precise than using the dot meter on the dash. For actual coasting one really needs to be very close to zero power; the easy way to do this is to shift to neutral — then one knows the car is at zero power. For those who don't care much about efficiency or hypermiling, it isn't worth bothering with. But some of us find it fun (and it can be useful when stretching the range).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ah, but how about "coasting in neutral" vs "coasting in drive by keeping the accelerator neither braking or using power" - if one can do the latter perhaps it is of equal value and avoids the risk of having to put the car 'in gear' if a sudden move is needed (i.e. that crazy person pulls out of the driveway next to you and you need to jet out of their way).

Also note - it appears several states have "no coasting on a downgrade" laws on the books. Likely for the reasons listed above... See the link here for info (the question is about neutral at stop lights, but the answer addresses coasting on downhills) - http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/14159/is-it-illegal-in-any-u-s-jurisdiction-to-be-in-neutral-at-a-red-light" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sure u "could" do it that way. i found it to be way more work than i was willing to do, but that was me

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I never shift to neutral. I just keep pressing on the gas a bit. so if I get one green dot or one white dot. it's not that much of a difference.

Gas? My car doesn't use gas...

The SV/SL models have an energy meter that shows the kW being used/generated. Keeping that at zero is considerably more precise than using the dot meter on the dash. For actual coasting one really needs to be very close to zero power; the easy way to do this is to shift to neutral — then one knows the car is at zero power. For those who don't care much about efficiency or hypermiling, it isn't worth bothering with. But some of us find it fun (and it can be useful when stretching the range).

+1. I found it requiring too much concentration to "dead band" (use or generate no power) the LEAF in drive. shifting to neutral takes much less than a second (i shift it into reverse for the immediate effect) and the incidences of sudden maneuvers do happen but not that much on city streets and most of this is done at low speeds anyway so an immediate reaction time is not needed most of the time but then again, the drivers are not as crazy here as they are in "your" neighborhood (keeping in mind, it does not matter where you live) and besides, shifting back into gear, there is at least a full second delay before regen has an affect on velocity anyway.

 

[zowland]

Back to topic; first cool day here this fall (40 F) with drizzle requiring heat and defrost. Didn't think to preheat. The 25 mi 45 mph round trip took me down to 3 bars. Can't wait to see what happens when it really gets cold and I'm on my regular 30 mi round trip commute. No worries the first winter, a little less of a buffer the following winter, and a couple of nail biters last winter. Looks like this car won't make it to it's 5th birthday as a reliable commuter (only at 16k, haven't lost my first bar, but winter range is certainly going away faster than I would have thought.)

 

[Slow1]

Zowland -

How many battery temp bars did you have? I wonder if the battery temp correlates at all to the range loss.. (I know, heater use will suck power regardless).

 

[billg]

I never shift to neutral. I just keep pressing on the gas a bit. so if I get one green dot or one white dot. it's not that much of a difference.

I know this is anecdotal, but after reading this thread, I decided to try coasting in Neutral when the opportunity presented itself. I have been averaging about 4.5 mi/kWh (mainly in Eco/B) in the month+ I've had the Leaf, but on my current charge, while using Neutral on in-town downhills, I am averaging 5.6 mi/kWh. No changes in routes, AC usage, average speed, etc. And I am amazed at how well this car coasts.

 

[mkjayakumar]

And I am amazed at how well this car coasts.

Exactly. And also I believe all the fancy regen options that we have on the Leaf really does very little to increase your efficiency or range. One can get the same or better efficiency driving normally on 'D' mode, as long as you don't do jack rabbit starts and stops. On top of that if you learn how to coast through shifting to Neutral, your efficiency can get way higher than anything those pesky regen modes can give.

 

[lorenfb]

And I am amazed at how well this car coasts.

Exactly. And also I believe all the fancy regen options that we have on the Leaf really does very little to increase your efficiency or range. One can get the same or better efficiency driving normally on 'D' mode, as long as you don't do jack rabbit starts and stops. On top of that if you learn how to coast through shifting to Neutral, your efficiency can get way higher than anything those pesky regen modes can give.

Leave it to those second-rate Leaf (& Tesla/BMW) engineers to not have ever driven their vehicles
using coasting versus regen prior to a production release.

 

[Slow1]

I never shift to neutral. I just keep pressing on the gas a bit. so if I get one green dot or one white dot. it's not that much of a difference.

I know this is anecdotal, but after reading this thread, I decided to try coasting in Neutral when the opportunity presented itself. I have been averaging about 4.5 mi/kWh (mainly in Eco/B) in the month+ I've had the Leaf, but on my current charge, while using Neutral on in-town downhills, I am averaging 5.6 mi/kWh. No changes in routes, AC usage, average speed, etc. And I am amazed at how well this car coasts.

So now the question that comes to my mind - is this data a calculation anomaly or really an improvement. IF you adopt this practice and go from 4.5M/kwh to 5.6M/Kwh that is about a 24% increase. Keep it up for a full charge to known point (empty or whatever) and see if your range has increased by the same - i.e. if you get 50 miles going from 100% down to 50% @4.5M/kwh, I'd expect with this style (5.6M/kwh) to get 62 miles all other things being equal (which they never are...)... Have you observed this?

 

[billg]

So now the question that comes to my mind - is this data a calculation anomaly or really an improvement. IF you adopt this practice and go from 4.5M/kwh to 5.6M/Kwh that is about a 24% increase. Keep it up for a full charge to known point (empty or whatever) and see if your range has increased by the same - i.e. if you get 50 miles going from 100% down to 50% @4.5M/kwh, I'd expect with this style (5.6M/kwh) to get 62 miles all other things being equal (which they never are...)... Have you observed this?

Haven't observed it yet. The only time I've taken the car to VLB was the second week I had it, and I went 104 miles with 7% SOC remaining. I wasn't closely monitoring the mi/kWh meter then, and hadn't reset it since delivery, but it was around 4.5 (+/- .2).

Right now, I have driven 46 miles @ 5.6 mi/kWh, SOC shows 57%, and the GOM shows 65 miles remaining. I will continue to drive on this charge, coasting in N where possible, and see how it holds up. It will likely take me the rest of the weekend, and there is a weather change which will affect the numbers positively. A "cold" front came through Dallas this morning, and it's unlikely I will be using the AC (or heat) for the remainder of the charge.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Back to topic; first cool day here this fall (40 F) with drizzle requiring heat and defrost. Didn't think to preheat. The 25 mi 45 mph round trip took me down to 3 bars. Can't wait to see what happens when it really gets cold and I'm on my regular 30 mi round trip commute. No worries the first winter, a little less of a buffer the following winter, and a couple of nail biters last winter. Looks like this car won't make it to it's 5th birthday as a reliable commuter (only at 16k, haven't lost my first bar, but winter range is certainly going away faster than I would have thought.)

not quite as cold here but did have 3-4 mornings in a row with temps in the mid 40's. car garaged so nowhere near cold enough for me to want or use heat. did have to toggle defrost a bit here and there and thankfully I now have option to use fresh air setting. it might be 45º but still feels good in the morning while drinking hot coffee on the drive!

I did however adjust my LEAF Spy from 4.5 miles/kwh (Summer setting) to 4.2 miles/kwh (Fall/Spring setting) the other day.

another thing I did was adjust tire pressures!

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/09/fall-is-coming-time-to-adjust-your-tires.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mkjayakumar]

Have you observed this?

Yes, I have. I can drive much farther if I avoid regen and use coasting more.

To the question of, whether I know more than Nissan/Tesla/BMW engineers, I can say this: I have seen practical data after driving now close to 45K miles in real world conditions - not going round and round in some oval tracks. Practical real world data triumphs any theoretical conjecture.

To me this is the best scenario:

- Foot of the 'gas' pedal the car should go into coasting mode
- regen on the break pedal.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So now the question that comes to my mind - is this data a calculation anomaly or really an improvement. IF you adopt this practice and go from 4.5M/kwh to 5.6M/Kwh that is about a 24% increase. Keep it up for a full charge to known point (empty or whatever) and see if your range has increased by the same - i.e. if you get 50 miles going from 100% down to 50% @4.5M/kwh, I'd expect with this style (5.6M/kwh) to get 62 miles all other things being equal (which they never are...)... Have you observed this?

Haven't observed it yet. The only time I've taken the car to VLB was the second week I had it, and I went 104 miles with 7% SOC remaining. I wasn't closely monitoring the mi/kWh meter then, and hadn't reset it since delivery, but it was around 4.5 (+/- .2).

Right now, I have driven 46 miles @ 5.6 mi/kWh, SOC shows 57%, and the GOM shows 65 miles remaining. I will continue to drive on this charge, coasting in N where possible, and see how it holds up. It will likely take me the rest of the weekend, and there is a weather change which will affect the numbers positively. A "cold" front came through Dallas this morning, and it's unlikely I will be using the AC (or heat) for the remainder of the charge.

Neutral driving is challenging in many ways but easier to maintain than trying to vary pedal pressure in drive. but if done correctly, you will boost your range. I routinely do commutes near 100 miles using this technique and it definitely improves my range.

Now, not all here will have the favorable terrain to make this happen but if you, you really should try it. give it a week.

FYI; something that is not mentioned here but I see a drain of roughly .02 kwh/mile when coasting. Long term neutral driving will rack up the miles with a very negligible amount of cycle pack aging.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...To me this is the best scenario:

- Foot of the 'gas' pedal the car should go into coasting mode
- regen on the break pedal.

This has been suggested a number of times but I have my reservations. When I back off the accelerator, especially in an emergency, I want the car to start slowing right away, not wait until I can hit the brakes. The car can move a long way before the brake pedal is applied and any slowing reduces the energy of the collision. [I find it uncomfortable when driving hilly terrain near "100%" charge because the car picks up speed so quickly with no regen, even on just a slight downslope.]

For efficient driving using coasting, I'd rather have some sort of user setting for neutral, which is pretty much what we have now. For the current regen-on-accelerator pedal, an improvement I would suggest would be a larger "dead zone" between power and regen, so that it would be easier to keep the pedal at neutral. But full off the accelerator should still be strong regen to get the car slowed right away until the brakes are applied.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

...To me this is the best scenario:

- Foot of the 'gas' pedal the car should go into coasting mode
- regen on the break pedal.

This has been suggested a number of times but I have my reservations. When I back off the accelerator, especially in an emergency, I want the car to start slowing right away, not wait until I can hit the brakes. The car can move a long way before the brake pedal is applied and any slowing reduces the energy of the collision. [I find it uncomfortable when driving hilly terrain near "100%" charge because the car picks up speed so quickly with no regen, even on just a slight downslope.]

For efficient driving using coasting, I'd rather have some sort of user setting for neutral, which is pretty much what we have now. For the current regen-on-accelerator pedal, an improvement I would suggest would be a larger "dead zone" between power and regen, so that it would be easier to keep the pedal at neutral. But full off the accelerator should still be strong regen to get the car slowed right away until the brakes are applied.

ok, none of this is suggested for evasive situations or emergencies. In all things, we need to make very individual choices here. I am only saying this is one of many ways to get more range out of your LEAF and in my situation, the best way. But that is me. You need to find your own best way and a higher level of stress is simply not worth gaining a few extra miles

 

[dgpcolorado]

ok, none of this is suggested for evasive situations or emergencies. In all things, we need to make very individual choices here. I am only saying this is one of many ways to get more range out of your LEAF and in my situation, the best way. But that is me. You need to find your own best way and a higher level of stress is simply not worth gaining a few extra miles

I certainly don't shift to neutral in situations where it isn't safe. But I live in a low traffic, low stress environment so it is pretty easy. Nevertheless, if a neutral dead zone on the accelerator were expanded so that it was wider and easier to use, it would make it really easy to coast when desired, with regen at-the-ready, if needed. I'm certainly not the first to suggest this change.

 

[mkjayakumar]

We all have been driving for decades in an ICE without suddenly slowing down with foot of the pedal.

An ICE car only marginally slows down, and EV slows down dramatically. If you can get the EV to slow down no more than ICE would that be alright to you? My son said he does not enjoy driving the Leaf mainly because he has to be constantly on the pedal to keep it going at a specific speed.