Sudden major range decrease along with charging error-SOLVED!!!

[Raynman10]

Will CVLI test show it?

 

[Dala]

Someone correct me if I-m wrong, but i think a Cell Voltage LOSS Inspection test wont trigger when there is excessive voltage.

 

[Raynman10]

i found another dealer that seems sympathetic. Did state that original warranty will cover defective cells. hope they will work at diagnostics to find solution. no code currently of past for cell malfunction. any suggestions for dealer would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[danrjones]

i found another dealer that seems sympathetic. Did state that original warranty will cover defective cells. hope they will work at diagnostics to find solution. no code currently of past for cell malfunction. any suggestions for dealer would be appreciated.
Thanks

Did you say where you are?

 

[Raynman10]

The car is in Napa CA. Nissan Dealer there could care less, told her to buy a new car. Petaluma Nissan has been very responsive!! Napa is where the owner, my niece lives.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You may have two or even three issues. Along with the bad cell, you may have a bad or undercharged 12 volt battery as well. If it's older than three years, replace it. If newer, fully charge it with an external battery charger, and tell her NOT to leave it plugged in after or before (if using a charge timer) charging for too long.

 

[Raynman10]

We think the battery may be original, it tested poorly and will be replaced at the Dealership in Petaluma. Thanks for the advice regarding charging Leftiebiker

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is a bug in the early Leafs - especially in the 2013 model year - that causes the 12 volt battery to get drained if the car is left plugged in but not charging for more than a few hours. It can also happen if this is done a few hours every day.

 

[specialgreen]

If you are only charging using the included Nissan 120 volt charger, then it may help to charge to 90%+ at home, then drive to a mall or somewhere with a commercial EVSE, and leave it L2 charging for several hours (pick an L2 charger which charges per-kwhr, not per minute!). The reason is that I've read on MNL that the traction battery may not balance the cells if it is only charged using a 120v Level1 charger.

That said, a "typical" unbalanced battery has a random assortment of low and high cells, and your LeafSpy seems to show just one high cell, so I suspect that 120v L1 vs 240v L2 isn't the issue... just mentioning it as something cheap & easy to try.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you are only charging using the included Nissan 120 volt charger, then it may help to charge to 90%+ at home, then drive to a mall or somewhere with a commercial EVSE, and leave it L2 charging for several hours (pick an L2 charger which charges per-kwhr, not per minute!). The reason is that I've read on MNL that the traction battery may not balance the cells if it is only charged using a 120v Level1 charger.

That said, a "typical" unbalanced battery has a random assortment of low and high cells, and your LeafSpy seems to show just one high cell, so I suspect that 120v L1 vs 240v L2 isn't the issue... just mentioning it as something cheap & easy to try.

L-1 charging will in fact balance the cells, at least under normal circumstances. The amperages involved are actually very small. It may possibly even work better, as the BMS will have to spend a bit longer balancing.

 

[Lothsahn]

If you are only charging using the included Nissan 120 volt charger, then it may help to charge to 90%+ at home, then drive to a mall or somewhere with a commercial EVSE, and leave it L2 charging for several hours (pick an L2 charger which charges per-kwhr, not per minute!). The reason is that I've read on MNL that the traction battery may not balance the cells if it is only charged using a 120v Level1 charger.

That said, a "typical" unbalanced battery has a random assortment of low and high cells, and your LeafSpy seems to show just one high cell, so I suspect that 120v L1 vs 240v L2 isn't the issue... just mentioning it as something cheap & easy to try.

L-1 charging will in fact balance the cells, at least under normal circumstances. The amperages involved are actually very small. It may possibly even work better, as the BMS will have to spend a bit longer balancing.

An imbalance of 25% capacity requires about 3 months of charging or being powered on to correct. 50% would be 6 months, etc. The balancing is very very slow. it is true that repeated L1 charging will generally help with cell balancing because the power input is slow (weaker cells will have less internal resistance) and L1 charging takes so long that you have more time to balance. However, it won't help on a single charge--you will need weeks or months of charging to see an impact.

I found it interesting that cell 50 is 66mv high at 85% SOH and only 29mv at 78.4% SOH. That's a significant drop over a very short discharge. That suggests that cell 50 has far less capacity than the rest of the cells and that this isn't a balancing issue but a cell failure.

Here's what the OP needs to do:
1) Charge and test the 12V battery with an external charger. It should show 12.4V or higher after the car sits off for an hour.
2) If the 12V battery shows < 12.4V while the car is off, replace the 12V battery. If replaced, repeat step 1.
3) Use LeafSpy to clear any active DTC's. If any DTC's remain, save a screenshot.
4) Charge the car to "full" (until it stops charging)
5) Capture the screen that shows the voltages of all batteries (screen with the red and blue bars) via LeafSpy. Save a screenshot.
6) Drive the car to discharge the battery, no further than Very Low Battery warning (--- miles remaining). Keep in mind that with cell defects it may randomly turtle or shut off at low charge states, so only drive it to a % that you feel is safe.
7) Once you have discharged the battery as far as you feel comfortable, bring it back home and (in range of the charging port) use the heater at 90F and full fan speed to discharge the battery down to VLBW (--- miles remaining)
8) As soon as VLBW triggers, use LeafSpy to capture the voltages of all batteries while in park with the heat off. Save a screenshot.
9) Use LeafSpy to fetch the DTC's of the car
10) Charge the car. You don't want to leave the car at VLBW.
11) Post all 3 screenshots (high SOC Battery voltages, low SOC battery voltages, DTC's) here so we can help you.


This will let us verify if a cell really is bad, and hopefully, the car will show a battery cell failure DTC. If it shows a DTC for cell failure, the dealer will fix the car under warranty with no argument. If no DTC is thrown, you may to have to fight Nissan. I've heard one person that had to threaten to sue to get the cell replaced without a DTC (even though it was clearly bad).

Good luck!

 

[Raynman10]

CONGRATULATIONS to all MNL contributors who took the time to assist in correcting this issue!
The leaf was taken to another Nissan dealer in Petaluma Ca where the customer mattered. fellow posters guided us on how to gather data using Leaf Spy Pro. It was presented to the Petaluma Ca Dealer shop and more importantly they listened. The shop called me within an hour to state they also felt there was a cell pairing failure as one group was overcharging. They were doing more testing to confirm the diagnostics. Shop called again about 5 hours later to confirm cell failure and report that Nissan agreed to honor the warranty, replace the cells and have the car ready Tuesday. We would have a $350.00 deductible all in!!
My Niece could not be more ecstatic!! She learned a tremendous amount about care of her Leaf, use the Leaf Spy Pro as a maintenance tool and of course how many kind and helpful people are out there who deserve our gratitude.
Thank you all so much.
You guys ROCK!!!

 

[LeftieBiker]

That's great news.

 

[knightmb]

This topic can be useful should anyone in the future have the same issue, information is power. Wield it against the dealers to make Nissan honors its warranty. :mrgreen:

 

[Lothsahn]

CONGRATULATIONS to all MNL contributors who took the time to assist in correcting this issue!
The leaf was taken to another Nissan dealer in Petaluma Ca where the customer mattered. fellow posters guided us on how to gather data using Leaf Spy Pro. It was presented to the Petaluma Ca Dealer shop and more importantly they listened. The shop called me within an hour to state they also felt there was a cell pairing failure as one group was overcharging. They were doing more testing to confirm the diagnostics. Shop called again about 5 hours later to confirm cell failure and report that Nissan agreed to honor the warranty, replace the cells and have the car ready Tuesday. We would have a $350.00 deductible all in!!
My Niece could not be more ecstatic!! She learned a tremendous amount about care of her Leaf, use the Leaf Spy Pro as a maintenance tool and of course how many kind and helpful people are out there who deserve our gratitude.
Thank you all so much.
You guys ROCK!!!

Fantastic news! Glad to hear you were properly taken care of. Props to Nissan in Petaluma.

FYI - The new cells will show a voltage delta compared to the old ones, but this is normal. That's because their capacity will be higher than the old cells. I just wanted to let you know since you're familiar with LeafSpy, so you didn't think the repair was done wrong.

More info in this post here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/ecgtyr/i_brought_my_leaf_in_for_repair_due_to_leafspy/fbbzr8l?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x