Suggest Cities to See Relative Battery Aging Factor

[Stoaty]

I added Hilo, HI at 1.42 (Weatherman - 1.34), Syracuse, NY at 0.69. A, Montreal, Canada at 0.63 and Lisbon, Portugal at 0.95. Any last requests for cities not in the table?

 

[abasile]

Any last requests for cities not in the table?

I wasn't going to bother you with this, but now that you ask, how about Big Bear Lake, CA? :mrgreen:

 

[Weatherman]

Big Bear City, based on hourly data from 9/1/2007 to 9/1/2012: 0.54

You beat Olympia, WA on my list.

 

[vegastar]

Hi, if you could do also Porto, Portugal, I would be very happy

http://weatherspark.com/averages/32374/Porto-Portugal

 

[Roadburner440]

I would like to see Norfolk, VA added to the list please. Been trying to do this battery aging factor calculation myself using the sites provided, but I have had no luck.

 

[September]

I added Hilo, HI at 1.42 (Weatherman - 1.34), Syracuse, NY at 0.69. A, Montreal, Canada at 0.63 and Lisbon, Portugal at 0.95. Any last requests for cities not in the table?

Shannon, Ireland and Dublin, Ireland

 

[Stoaty]

Big Bear City, based on hourly data from 9/1/2007 to 9/1/2012: 0.54

You beat Olympia, WA on my list.

Weatherspark data gives 0.59 (still beats Olympia, WA). I will get to the other cities requested in the next couple of days as time allows.

PS You data addicts are as bad as I am!

 

[vegastar]

I will get to the other cities requested in the next couple of days as time allows.

PS You data addicts are as bad as I am!

Thank you!

There's no such thing as too much data

 

[Weatherman]

Shannon, Ireland and Dublin, Ireland

Based on hourly data..

Shannon - 0.58
Dublin - 0.54

Very much like western Washington State in the U.S.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Shannon, Ireland and Dublin, Ireland

Based on hourly data..

Shannon - 0.58
Dublin - 0.54

Very much like western Washington State in the U.S.

We do have a Seattlite with roots in Ireland (in fact she just got back from a trip a few months ago!) who will concur!

 

[Stoaty]

OK, here are the requested cities:

Norfolk, VA - 1.01
Porto, Portugal - 0.81
Shannon, Ireland - 0.61
Dublin, Ireland - 0.58

Talk about the luck of the Irish!

Wiki updated.

 

[Weatherman]

Got an exact match on the hourly data for Porto. 0.81

 

[abasile]

Thank you for the Big Bear data. If only for the sake of our LEAF battery longevity my job were in Big Bear rather than down below in the too-hot valley! (Of course, I remain thankful to have a good job within LEAF commuting range of our beautiful mountain.)

 

[September]

OK, here are the requested cities:


Shannon, Ireland - 0.61
Dublin, Ireland - 0.58

Talk about the luck of the Irish!

Wiki updated.

Thanks! I wonder how it would play out, numbers are similar to Seattle but when I looked at monthly average temperatures it seems that Seattle has warmer summers and less rainy days. If humidity does not play a role for LEAF aging than we are not worst I guess. Maybe EVs would play out on this small island, otherwise guys who are responsible for fact that we have more charging stations than EVs could be in trouble...

 

[vegastar]

OK, here are the requested cities:

Norfolk, VA - 1.01
Porto, Portugal - 0.81
Shannon, Ireland - 0.61
Dublin, Ireland - 0.58

Talk about the luck of the Irish!

Wiki updated.

Thank you! Is it correct that in the case of Porto, a degradation rate of 0.81 means my Leaf will be at 80% capacity in 5 years / 0.81 = 6.17 years? This assuming the 12500 miles per annum (17k miles actually...).

 

[Stoaty]

Thank you! Is it correct that in the case of Porto, a degradation rate of 0.81 means my Leaf will be at 80% capacity in 5 years / 0.81 = 6.17 years? This assuming the 12500 miles per annum (17k miles actually...).

While we don't know for sure whether that number applies equally to calendar loss and cycling loss, as a rough approximation I would say that is correct. We'll be checking in with you in another 4-5 years to see how our prediction is working out.

 

[Weatherman]

Since there's an argument that temperature stability is an important factor to consider in battery aging, in other words, locations with huge swings from hot to cold will suffer far more than those with stable warm temperatures, I thought I'd list the standard deviation of hourly temperatures for the "warm" locations on my list (the argument, of course, is that bigger is badder):

Dallas/Ft. Worth - 9.9C
Phoenix - 9.8C
Houston - 8.2C
Orlando - 6.4C
Hong Kong - 5.8C
Ft. Lauderdale - 4.9C
Hilo - 2.9C
Honolulu - 2.7C

Are LEAF batteries in South Florida and Hawaii going to suffer less from the persistent warm temperatures simply because they have such small temperature variation. I guess we'll see in about a year from now.

 

[Stoaty]

Since there's an argument that temperature stability is an important factor to consider in battery aging, in other words, locations with huge swings from hot to cold will suffer far more than those with stable warm temperatures, I thought I'd list the standard deviation of hourly temperatures for the "warm" locations on my list (the argument, of course, is that bigger is badder):

Dallas/Ft. Worth - 9.9C
Phoenix - 9.8C
Houston - 8.2C
Orlando - 6.4C
Hong Kong - 5.8C
Ft. Lauderdale - 4.9C
Hilo - 2.9C
Honolulu - 2.7C

Those standard deviation numbers are degrees Celsius?

Edit: I don't think the issue is temperature stability, it is whether extremely high temperatures are potentially more damaging (beyond the battery aging factor effect) than sustained fairly hot to hot temperatures. In other words, what percent fall into the "Sweltering" (especially this one) and perhaps "Very Hot" categories.

 

[Stoaty]

OK, here is the data for cities that have high battery aging factors showing the percent of time that temperature is more than 100 degrees F.:

Dubai, UAE 6.12%
Phoenix, AZ 8.19%
Palm Springs 6.64%
Las Vegas, NV 4.73%
Houston, TX 0.86%
Tucson, AZ 2.56%
Ridgecrest, CA 4.39%
Bakersfield, CA 1.23%

Note: the other cities with high battery aging factors aren't listed because they have less than 1% of the time spent at greater than 100 degrees F.

If Florida doesn't develop a lot of bar losers like Phoenix in another year, we can probably conclude that the exposure to extreme temperatures for a significant period of time is an additional predisposing factor to rapid battery capacity loss.

 

[RegGuheert]

Big Bear City, based on hourly data from 9/1/2007 to 9/1/2012: 0.54

You beat Olympia, WA on my list.

Weatherspark data gives 0.59 (still beats Olympia, WA).

With the addition of Big Bear City at 0.59 and with Phoenix at 1.81, we now have a full range of battery aging factors within the U.S. of over 3:1 per this model.

Assuming the model is fairly close to reality, then I would say the picture is more clear now: Nissan has communicated a single aging factor for owners to expect, plus or minus some undisclosed amount of deviation, but the reality is that climate ALONE may result in a variation in battery capacity loss rates greater than 3:1 just within the U.S. Other factors will spread user experience even wider than that, possibly much wider.

I would say that this amount of battery life variation due to climate is more than the vast majority of LEAF purchasers imagined when they read the disclaimers provided by Nissan.

Since the LEAF has a small range, it was and is fully within Nissan's capability to provide specific guidance on battery aging for each individual dealership to provide to the consumer at the time of sale. Since this information has great bearing on the purchasing decision every buyer has to make, it should be disclosed before the purchase.