Swap Mustang for Leaf? Anxiety switching to EV

[NYLEAF]

UPDATE:

The lease swap I've been looking at is not an SL, not even an SV. Glad I didn't pay the $60 for Swapalease just yet to fully contact the person. Instead, I had requested photos with one of the preset questions. The response was they were submitted to Swapalease and should be up soon. They are up, and it looks like a cloth interior with basic radio that comes with an S model.

http://www.swapalease.com/lease/details/2014-Nissan-LEAF.aspx?salid=841116" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those wheels in the first picture are a giveaway, too. That's definitely an S model. The S model has a lot of missing features, the big one being the heat pump heater (if that makes a difference in your climate).

 

[RonDawg]

UPDATE:

The lease swap I've been looking at is not an SL, not even an SV. Glad I didn't pay the $60 for Swapalease just yet to fully contact the person. Instead, I had requested photos with one of the preset questions. The response was they were submitted to Swapalease and should be up soon. They are up, and it looks like a cloth interior with basic radio that comes with an S model.

http://www.swapalease.com/lease/details/2014-Nissan-LEAF.aspx?salid=841116" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh well it did sound a bit too good to be true.

 

[brian123]

Received a reply from one of my TrueCar quotes from a Hayward dealer.

I'm confused by a note at the end of their message:

(Exact wording)

Note: $2,500 California Rebate is end. We are honoring that for purchase buyers so please take the advantage of it and save money.

I know someone commented that funds are gone for that rebate, so it will take time until the new budget comes in, but not that it is gone. Could the situation be more bleak than we realize?

I'm not sure this has anything to do with the $2,500 NMAC cash back featured at Nissan since that requires financing through them and upon credit approval. When you go to Nissan payment estimate and choose Tier 1 credit, it will show a purchase offer on a 2014 for 72 months at 0% with $2500 NMAC cash back through April 30th. Financing subject to NMAC Tier 1 through Tier 3 credit approval.

 

[RonDawg]

Rather than take a dealer's word for it (I know it's hard to believe, but dealers do lie :lol: ), this is what the CVRP Rebate says right on their home page:

If you applied on or after March 28, 2014, you will receive your rebate check in September 2014.

So no it's not going away, but you will be waiting for some time.

It could refer to NMAC's own rebate though.

 

[brian123]

TEST DRIVE:

So, took the LEAF for a test drive Saturday at my local dealer, a quick 2 mile circuit. Very pleasant ride. Surprisingly, it didn't feel much different than a normal car in terms of response and braking, which is a good thing (Unless I hit ECO button). Coming from a 305hp V6 Mustang you'd expect switching to a car like this would be a disappointing change, but it wasn't. It never felt sluggish for a your day to day driving. Though, I think I need to test drive it again to fully appreciate the LEAF's electric motor. Without engine noise, I didn't realize how quickly I reached desired speed. I kept having to let go of the pedal earlier than expected when I realized I already hit 35-39mph when I thought I was still around 25mph.

Driving mostly back roads next to orchards, the roads were not the smoothest, yet the LEAF was still a comfortable ride. At one point there was a shallow pothole coming up, to which I announced to the salesman expecting a jolt. But as I passed over, I wasn't even sure I hit it besides an almost unrecongnizable bump. I'm so use to the Mustang's sporty suspension where you can feel every bump, but that car always felt nice and solid. The LEAF's silent operation and smooth ride make for a very comfortable and relaxing combination.

Loved the Blue Ocean color. The gun metal was nice too, but I prefer the bright cheery look of the blue. As for the interior, I will not settle for anything other than light grey for the same reason. Sadly, they only had black interiors on the lot, not even an SL to see the leather. I will say, if money is tight, the S model that only comes in black was still a very nice car on the inside. Usually base models are a little rough around the edges, like a Versa Note, but this was still impressive, even considering the more basic non-touch radio console.

Trunk room was decent, you just won't be able to fit anything too wide in it.

The front was very roomy for a 6' 2" guy. I preferred the wheel tilted all the way up for me. I sat in the back and had decent room, my hair was starting to touch the roof a bit, but not bad. Even sitting in the middle I was still ok. So it's great to know it will fit just about anyone comfortably for a short drive, and anyone unusually tall can sit in the front.

Shifter was nice and a welcome change to remind you of the type of car your are driving, plus how it's low profile. I will say though, I wish I could reverse it. I naturally wanted to move it forward for drive, back for reverse, the opposite of the way it is set up.

Overall, a very nice car.

VOLT:
I also had a chance to drive a used 2012 VOLT. I fit in the driver seat okay. Everything feels closer to you, but not in a bad way. The telescoping steering wheel is a nice touch. It drove nice, but the generator was on most the time. Overall interior and design is nice. The back seats, not so much. The roof was too low and I hit it, forcing me to always sit more back so my head stuck into the raised area of the back window, so I didn't feel safe. Knee room might be less too. Then over course you have no middle seat. Very disappointing, especially since it should be better than my Mustang. This leads me to believe, for a family, the Volt might not be a good choice for your only car.

LEAF PRICE:
I'm getting close to a price I'd be happy with without having to drive to a distant dealer, but I hope to get some quotes to use as leverage for just a bit more off the price.

Current offer:
MSRP: $35,520
Dealer Discount: $2,817
Cashback: $2500

Sale Price: $30,203

Tax: $2,499.70
License Fee: $314
Electronic Filing Fee: $26
Tire Fee: $8.75
Doc. Fee: $80

Total: $33,131

Mustang Trade In, so far they are willing to do $17,500 as a last resort
Payyoff for loan: $15000
Leaving $2500

Dropping price to $30631

72mth @ 0 = $425 a month.

My Mustang is a $384 payment with $15k left. Though, it's insurance is $20 more than the LEAF. So Mustang $384 + $120 insurance = $504 vs LEAF at $425 + 100 = $525. Not a huge difference considering the gas savings. The rebates/credits will help pay off the LEAF at the same time as the Mustang would in 3 years.

I hope to still shave a bit more off that price. But it's still pretty good. It's possible I could sell the Mustang for more privately, but that's not something I have time for. Not is it a simple $3k used car that would sell quickly with cash. If it's true that a couple Truecar dealers can give a $4000 discount, that may help with negotiation for either more on my trade or more off the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

Brian, you might want to try a Spark EV too. It's ride will be closer to your 'Stang than the LEAF, and it's about two seconds quicker 0-60 than the LEAF too. Legroom might be too short for you in front. I'm 6'0" but have long (34" inseam) legs, and I had just enough legroom. Only four people, and backseat legroom will definitely be tight with medium or larger adults in front, but it just depends on what you need it for. Cargo space is less than the LEAF, especially with the seats up, but ample for most purposes with them down, although I don't know if you could get a bike in there if that's an issue (you definitely can with the LEAF). Cost is less than a LEAF, range is better, battery has a liquid heated/cooled TMS and a more heat-tolerant chemistry, but only a 3.3 kW on-board charger (not an issue for overnight charging), and has an available quick charge option that uses a quick charge standard (SAE Combo aka CCS) which has very limited derployment currently, but that will change in California. OTOH, you're far more likely to be able to do Modesto - South Bay non-stop in the Spark with a full charge.

As to the Volt, you were either in Mountain mode with a partly depleted battery or else the battery was nearly discharged, because in normal mode you should have been able to drive it without the engine ever coming on for far longer than your test drive.

 

[kubel]

I used to drive about 55 miles per day. This made the LEAF better than the Volt since it was less than the maximum range of the LEAF, but more than the maximum electric range of the Volt. If I got a Volt, I would be burning gas daily.

Now that I moved, I drive less than a tenth of that distance. This makes the Volt better than the LEAF since not only would 100% of my commuting be on electricity, it allowed me to drive long distances as well. In fact, my next car will likely be a second generation Volt.

I don't mean to push you away from the LEAF if that's the car that you like- but given your commute and occasional long distance needs, the Volt would probably make for a better car.

 

[brian123]

LEAF -- Spark EV -- VOLT

This is a touch decision, all have pros and cons

LEAF: Max comfort, Quick Charge, Styling (Cost a bit more for desired features, battery doesn't have advance cooling systems)
Spark EV: Cheaper, Funner to drive, estimated better battery life (Rare quick charge method, small)
VOLT: Range, Styling, no need for quick charge, estimated better battery life (Lacks rear seating, but good storage, more expensive)

LEASE or BUY
Non of these vehicles are perfect, so I may rethink the idea of Leasing so I have no regrets in 2-3 years. It's just too uncertain what their values will depending on technology improvements. So I don't want to be stuck in a situation with car that has lost range and difficult to sell at a good price.

TURNING POINT FOR LEASE:
The San Joaquin Valley Air rebate has been in question. Is it for purchase and lease? Do you have to keep the car for a certain amount of time? I just called their number and they confirmed you still get their full $2-$3k rebate if you Lease for 36 months, which they process within 6 weeks.

Eligibility list and rebate amount:
http://valleyair.org/grants/documents/driveclean/Drive_Clean_Rebate_Program_Vehicles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Volt: $2000 rebate San Joaquin, and $1500 CA rebate = $3500 in pocket
Spark EV and LEAF: $3000 San Joaquin Rebate and $2500 CA rebate = $5500 in pocket

This really makes leasing a more favorable option compared to my original calculations where I factored in the $3000 LEAF rebate only for purchase. And if I'm not going to keep the vehicle past 3 years, I shouldn't dismiss the Volt or Spark EV, as others have mention.

Time to run some numbers again.

 

[RonDawg]

Per the link you provided, it appears purchases are also included in the SJ Valley rebate program. If they want you to lease for at least 36 months, it sounds like the requirements are the same as the state program, which they also link to.

 

[brian123]

Update:

I'm going with a Volt for the time being. Lease pricing seems to be good, but I may possibly buy with 0% 48 months. That way if the vehicle is still great and the EV market is still maturing, I can keep it and have built a ton of equity into it to trade in later.

Wish I could make the LEAF work for me, but until it has a bit more range and a full TMS for the battery to deal with the Valley summers, it's too much of a gamble right now.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Update:

I'm going with a Volt for the time being.

I think you are making a wise choice.

 

[GRA]

Update:

I'm going with a Volt for the time being.

I think you are making a wise choice.

Agreed. Brian's getting one car that will do everything he needs it to, and which will still be useful ten or twenty years from now if he keeps it. Let us know how it goes, Brian, and you might want to follow gm-volt.com as well, if you don't already. Enjoy!