TED5000 + PV + LEAF

[SparkyEV]

I posted this on the TED forum, but since many MNL members use the TED with their LEAF, I though I would post here as well.

I just installed my new TED5000 this past Saturday. I installed 3 MTUs; one for the house (Load), one for my solar array (Generation), and one for my LEAF (Load, electric vehicle charger). I installed all of the MTUs in my main breaker panel (not the sub-panel with all of the house circuits) because that's where my solar and LEAF tie it. Everything works great until I start charging the car. At that point the gateway stops receiving any packets from all 3 MTUs. As soon as the car charger is turned off, everything immediately goes back to normal. I tried disconnecting all the red wires from the MTUs for 'improved signal strength' per the manual, and things started working again, for a while. I had to change all of the MTU calibrations from 1.0 to 2.0 to get the right readings though (I assume that's a side-effect of disconnecting the red wires?). When I did that initial test, it was early evening so the solar array was not producing much power. This morning, I tried charging the car while the solar array was producing 2.5 kW, and the same thing happened again (no packets received by gateway while the car was charging). I don't know for sure that the solar array has anything to do with the problem though.

It sounds to me like I need an inline filter between the car charger and the panel? Can I buy such a filter at Radio Shack, or do I need to order it from TED? Do I need one filter for each phase (L2 charger)? Is there anything else that could be causing this before I go out and buy filters?

Have any other LEAFers had a problem with line noise from the LEAF's charger? I do see at least one reading (3.666 kW) from the LEAF MTU before the traffic stops, so it seems that the problem is just the MTU -> Gateway communication.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Nekota]

The TED uses a line signaling technology and line noise, interference from X10, CFL noise and line filter circuits have adverse effects on line signaling technology. You should read this link/thread about LEAF line noise ->

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3988" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As much as I like the TED for its accuracy and user interface, I already have X10 devices in use and those are not compatible with TED so I used a system that sends signals with 433MHz RF (CurrentCost).

 

[greenleaf]

I don't have interference issue with the Blink EVSE.

Can you try moving your gateway to an outlet closer to the MTUs?

If I recall correctly, data transmission from the MTU is stronger on the phase with the white wire. So, it helps to plug your gateway into the same phase as the MTU white wire.

For the EVSE, you can connect just one MTU and use 2x since the current in L1 and L2 will be equal. Same for the typical solar PV setup. But for the mains, you need to have two MTUs connected to get the correct overall power consumption from the grid.

 

[greenleaf]

I don't have interference issue with the Blink EVSE.

Can you try moving your gateway to an outlet closer to the MTUs?

If I recall correctly, data transmission from the MTU is stronger on the phase with the white wire. So, it helps to plug your gateway into the same phase as the MTU white wire.

For the EVSE, you can connect just one MTU and use 2x since the current in L1 and L2 will be equal. Same for the typical solar PV setup. But for the mains, you need to have two MTUs connected to get the correct overall power consumption from the grid.

BTW, my gateway outlet is like one feet away from the panel where the MTUs are. I added this outlet specifically to pre-empt problems with MTU-to-gateway comm issues.

 

[Boomer23]

Sorry I can't help with your specific problem. I have the identical setup that you have, except that I only have one power panel. There has never been a problem with getting readings during times when the EVSE circuit is pulling load. One thing that you might try is moving the gateway to a different outlet or a different circuit, if you have one available that will give you a good signal. Of course, most of us have had to use trial and error to find an outlet that works that is somewhat close to our routers. I got lucky and found an outlet in the same room as my router and just needed to buy a longer network cable to reach the router.

I have had the problem where the TED readouts "freeze" with other circuits that have CFL light bulbs on them. I've been thinking about getting a filter, as you mention, but I solved my problem in other ways. I swapped out the CFL bulbs on my outdoor patio light circuit with LED bulbs (at some expense, even though there were only two bulbs, those suckers ain't cheap!). I had another incident where the TED readings would freeze for different lengths of time, giving a very blocky, rather than smooth look to the graphs. I managed to diagnose that to another outdoor fixture with a CFL in it. The CFL in this fixture was damaged and only working to a small degree. I replaced the bulb and that problem went away.

 

[SparkyEV]

I tried charging tonight after the PV inverter went to sleep for the night and the problem did not occur. I have a theory of what's going on. The main panel consists of a 100A main breaker that feeds the house and a small bus with two double-pole breakers, one for the PV and one for the EVSE. I connected all three MUT's to the PV breaker. When charging at night, the energy (and associated noise) travels from the grid feed straight to the EVSE, bypassing the MTU and allowing error-free communications. During the middle of the day, most of the energy is flowing straight from the PV to the EVSE, and it stomps on the MTU signal in the process.

So, this really isn't a big problem for me since I mostly charge at night, but I'd still like to get it fixed. I'm going to look at the box again to see if there's a tie-in point closer to the house feed.

When I first installed the TED, I did have to move the gateway around before I got a good signal. I ended up disconnecting the red phase and putting the gateway on an outlet on the black phase. PCL: It seemed like a good idea at the time...

 

[SparkyEV]

I have had the problem where the TED readouts "freeze" with other circuits that have CFL light bulbs on them. I've been thinking about getting a filter, as you mention, but I solved my problem in other ways. I swapped out the CFL bulbs on my outdoor patio light circuit with LED bulbs (at some expense, even though there were only two bulbs, those suckers ain't cheap!). I had another incident where the TED readings would freeze for different lengths of time, giving a very blocky, rather than smooth look to the graphs. I managed to diagnose that to another outdoor fixture with a CFL in it. The CFL in this fixture was damaged and only working to a small degree. I replaced the bulb and that problem went away.

That's interesting because I have all CFL bulbs but only have a problem when the car is charging! I initially had the gateway plugged in to the same outlet as all my server hardware (including, of course, the router!) and it was dropping packets left & right. After I moved it to the other circuit and disconnected the red leads from the MTUs it's been rock solid though. PCL does seem like an unreliable technology, especially as people add more noisy appliances.

 

[Boomer23]

I had the luxury of having enough breaker slots in my upgraded main panel that I could install a dual pole breaker that is only used for the MTU connections. So I didn't have to share the MTU connections with any other circuit.

 

[solarman]

I tried charging tonight after the PV inverter went to sleep for the night and the problem did not occur. I have a theory of what's going on. The main panel consists of a 100A main breaker that feeds the house and a small bus with two double-pole breakers, one for the PV and one for the EVSE. I connected all three MUT's to the PV breaker. When charging at night, the energy (and associated noise) travels from the grid feed straight to the EVSE, bypassing the MTU and allowing error-free communications. During the middle of the day, most of the energy is flowing straight from the PV to the EVSE, and it stomps on the MTU signal in the process.

Hi SparkyEV,
I'm glad I found your post. I have a BLINK EVSE, Solar PV and a TED 5000 with two MTUs and I have noticed that my TED real time readings "freeze" whenever I am charging the LEAF. This happens even at night, when my PV system is 'dormant'. As soon as charging stops and I reset the gateway, the readings are accurate again. My gateway is right next to the router, but not immediately near the MTUs. I don't think it's a problem with the distance between MTU and gateway since everything works fine when I'm not charging the EV, but I suspect that charging my EV causes some interference on the power line and messes up the communications. Have you found any other solutions to this issue?

P.S. I see we live in the same general area (I'm in Santa Clara). Perhaps, if you are planning to attend the Dec 3 SFBayleafs Meet w Nissan Engineers at Google, we can say hello there and talk more about using TED and Charging EVs. Is yours a BLINK charging station too?

 

[Dennisj00]

I posted this over in the 240 volt electrical noise problem thread . .

I guess I've been lucky. We had an AV charger installed in a sub-panel in October along with a 240 volt circuit to the roof for 15 panels / Enphase Microinverters.

The Envoy (communications gateway) that talks to the panels via PLC is on a circuit in the garage from the main panel and works fine. I have the PLC adapters to get the net connection back to my router.

And I have TED5000. I did move the gateway to a circuit nearer the main panel, but also added a MTU in the sub-panel for the solar circuit.

The LEAF (delivered 10/26) charges fine with no interference to X-10 or the microinverters or TED.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I have a TED5000, solar, and a BLINK. 3 CTs, one on the main lines (NET), on on the solar lines and one on the EV circuit.

Aside from the occasional CFL problem Boomer has (and I know exactly which lights will freeze my Gateway), I have had zero problems. TED works fine whether I'm charging or not. So it's nothing in the combo that is causing the problems.....