Tell Nissan to open other US markets NOW!

[relytgerg]

Comical Leaf chat session below. At least it would be comical if it were not so sad.

It appears Nissan has given their poor live chat representatives little or no guidance on how to respond to this issue. The standard response seems to be "we understand your frustration and appreciate your patience."

I made some typo's and grammatical errors, too, but this poor representative seemed half asleep during much of the chat. I'm not sure if he was just bored or nervous about answering these kinds of queries.

Here's the chat. The names have been changed to protect the ... OK, maybe none of us are truly innocent.

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
EV Customer Support is currently busy. Please stand by.
You have been connected to Agent.

Agent: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support, my name is Agent. How may I help you today?

Me: Has Nissan decided to address the uproar from Tier2 and Tier3 registrants as a result of their April 20th announcement that registration would reopen in Tier1 states allowing new registrants in line in front of some of the original 20,000?

Agent: What do you feels to be addressed

Me: Nissan promised at one point to deliver Leaf vehicles to the original 20,000 registrants by "summer of 2011." Now those of us in Tier3 states are being told we will be able to order in 2012 and that additional Tier1 registrants will be allow in line in front of us beginning May 1st. There has been no explanation as to the reason for this change. No apology for the delays to those of us effected. We feel that we're being treated unfairly.

Agent: Nissan appreciates your passion for this awesome car and we understand your disappointment and Nissan has made a start marketing for the Leaf in the States and the timing it will be rolled out

Me: That's it? That's the extent of Nissan's answer to this issue? That they understand my disappointment?
Agent: Sid I can appreciate your frustration for process but the sir states had the charging infrastructure for charging systems

Me: Who is Sid?
Me: I have all the charging infrastructure I need in my garage already. That's no excuse for changing their strategy without explanation.

Agent: I meant "sir' I am sorry
Agent: Outside of your home Nissan needs Dealerships that are able to support and service the vehicle and the state you live in needs to show Nissan that they have the capability to build public charging systems their state

Me: Dealers in my area already support and service Nissan Hybrids. I don't accept that it takes two years for them to prepare for the Leaf.
Me: Your own studies show that the vast majority of Leaf owners charge at their own homes. Again, these are not reasons for Nissan to change their roll-out strategy without explanation.

Agent: Once again we are sorry for your frustration and Nissan has decided to open tier1 states again and we thank you for your pacience

Me: So, in answer to my original question - Nissan has decided to address this issue by telling it's potential customers that Nissan is sorry for their frustration and thankful for their patience and nothing more. Is that correct?

Agent: I am sorry I do not have more specific information and that is Nissan marketing Strategy at this point with additional states rolling out this year and next

Me: I would ask that you make sure my frustration and the frustration of those like me are communicated as high up as possible in the management chain at Nissan. Thank you.

Agent: Before we end our conversation, I want to make sure we've addressed everything for you. Do you have any additional questions about what we discussed today?

Me: You haven't really addressed everything for me, but it's clear that you cannot address what I really need addressed, so I guess we'll leave it at that.

Agent: I hope you have a great day and thank you for contacting Nissan leaf customer support

 

[rnkepler]

Me: Dealers in my area already support and service Nissan Hybrids. I don't accept that it takes two years for them to prepare for the Leaf.

Aren't these apples and oranges (Nissan hybrid vs Leaf)? I could be wrong, but aside from the investment in multiple EVSEs, I thought the Leaf dealerships also had to have a special service bay and a special toolset to work on the car. That and training for the mechanics.

 

[NullPointer]

"Speaking at a Saturday press conference in front of San Francisco city hall, Tavares said that all 20,000 Leaf reservations will be filled by the end of summer 2011." - http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101213/CARREVIEWS/101219986

I agree this is misleading, but who knows, perhaps the reported misheard, was confused about the difference between reservations and orders, or just not careful.

"Customers registered to buy a Nissan Leaf electric car will take delivery before summer is over, the carmaker said yesterday.'" - http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20030966-54.html

This inital summary sentence from the reporter is perhaps worded poorly, but when the Nissan representative is actually quoted a few sentences later, it is clear he means orders and not reservations:

"We're now in the process of ramping up. Production is going to be peaking up in March and April, so we're pretty confident we are going to satisfy all of the orders we are going to get" by the end of summer.

"Nissan is 'still targeting 25000 reservations by December 2010 and will be able deliver most during (the) model year.' Mark also added in respect to the reservations themselves, and how many actual orders this process could lead to, that Nissan '…expects and are planning for (a) high percentage of reservations to convert to orders but will have solid forecast in a few months.'” - http://www.mynissanleaf.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=4&t=3466

"Most" and "a high percentage" are certainly not a guarantee.

I'm just not happy with Nissan being (from my point of view) unfair and dishonest with the customers they registered in the first 20,000 that will now have to wait even longer and be even further back in the overall line.

Almost every email I have from Nissan, dating back to March 2010, ends with this disclaimer:

"When sales commence in December 2010, limited quantities available in select markets/states thru online reservation system. Increased avail. in spring 2011 with full market rollout thru 2012."

This kind of language is also all over the place on their website.

Yes, I'm sure you can find a few stories from the media that imply all 20K initial reservation holders, including those in Tiers 2 and 3, would get their cars "early", whatever that means. Can you find anything official from Nissan to this effect? I think these stories are usually a result of someone's misunderstanding of the difference between a reservation and an order.

Everything official I have seen from Nissan indicates that some states, including early reservation holders in those states, would not be able to order until 2012. How is this being unfair or dishonest?

Nissan promised at one point to deliver Leaf vehicles to the original 20,000 registrants by "summer of 2011."

Do you have this in any kind of official communication from Nissan?

 

[NullPointer]

The point of my last few posts is that Nissan needs to tell us what the $99 reservation actually means, because it apparently doesn't mean what they originally told us it meant.

What did they originally tell you that it means?

 

[hill]

. . . . . . . . . .snip
And, by the way, I don't buy the lack of infrastructure argument. I have all the infrastructure I'll need in my garage already which is a 110V 30A circuit. Since I'll drive just over 20 miles a day that will be more than adequate to recharge my Leaf overnight.

It's often hard to fathom how some who've never run a multinational corporation... whose heads have to deal w/ the stress of 1st production quality runs, as well as the parent company's homeland being devistated by nukes - can presume that they could do a better job than those who've been doing it for a while.

.

 

[defiancecp]

I love this forum. I know I can come here any time and find at least one thread on the front page where people not suffering an issue are telling people who ARE suffering from that issue how wrong they are about being concerned.

FYI: Those of you doing this come across as nothing more than apologist fanboys. Whine about the press twisting and inflating everything bad all you want - but you're no better if you continuously try to shush any valid complaints. Either way is nothing more than disinformation to further your biased political positions.

I love the leaf, and can't wait for mine. That doesn't blind me to Nissan making foolish decisions and mistreating customers.

 

[jamesanne]

Well I am in the same boat and Nissan has not "lied" to me. I am not “suffering” from having to wait my turn. I have gone through every email I received before and after my reservation. From day one I see nothing that indicates I will be able to order a car before this fall/winter. There is even an email that says the reservation process is "paused" not closed until they reach a different phase. Check your communications from Nissan before you start complaining; otherwise you look like an idiot! Reality check - your not getting your car early. Deal with it. Take a pill. Talk to a shrink... Get over it!

 

[Stoaty]

I love this forum. I know that any time I can come here and find people complaining about the same issue that has been going on forever... even though there is no evidence that complaining or obsessing will have any effect on Nissan or get them any more information than they already had.

 

[NullPointer]

I love this forum. I know I can come here any time and find at least one thread on the front page where people not suffering an issue are telling people who ARE suffering from that issue how wrong they are about being concerned.

FYI: Those of you doing this come across as nothing more than apologist fanboys. Whine about the press twisting and inflating everything bad all you want - but you're no better if you continuously try to shush any valid complaints. Either way is nothing more than disinformation to further your biased political positions.

I love the leaf, and can't wait for mine. That doesn't blind me to Nissan making foolish decisions and mistreating customers.

I plunked down $99 on April 20, 2010, just like many others on here. On July 27 Nissan emailed me that "We just wanted to let you know that orders will begin in your area in December 2010." On December 10 I received an email from Nissan, and was expecting to place an order at that time, but opened the email to read instead that "Customers in your state will not be able to order until late summer 2011." So I am also "suffering" from this issue.

The AutoWeek story posted above by relytgerg is indeed incorrect, shocking. The correct quote from Tavares is "Nissan is dedicated to making sure that any reservationist who ordered a car in our first seven launch markets, will be driving their Nissan LEAF, at the latest, by the end of summer 2011." Listen for yourself at http://www.allsmallcars.com/blog/1052446_first-nissan-leaf-delivered-to-north-bay-san-francisco-resident , at about 26:42.

I'm still waiting for evidence that Nissan "promised all original 20K reservation holders a car by summer 2011". Anyone?

Personally I think they are making the right business decision by focusing their resources in this fashion. Sure, I'm annoyed that my state is not yet open for ordering, but I'm not beholden to Nissan either. Honestly I would prefer something from Honda or Toyota, and depending on how their BEV strategy develops over the next few months I may elect to wait instead of purchasing a LEAF.

 

[charlie1300]

So I'll admit that my previous post " your $99 deposit got you the right to a full refund" was a little sarcastic. Thought some would have gotten that, but, oh well. What your $99 got you was the "opportunity " to order a leaf when Nissan decided that they were ready to sell them in your state. As a member the forgotten 36, I paid close attention to what was projected(not promised) for us, and it was always vague, and keep being pushed out in time with every announcement.

I think this discussion underestimates the seriousness of the disaster in Japan in general, and it's effect on Nissan in particular, and Japan is by no means out of woods yet. It's already extended tier 2 orders/deliveries by three months from what they were projecting in February, And the potential for more bad news is real, particularly in regard to electrical power for the plant. That part of the delay is just bad luck and not Nissan's fault, nor can they really predict and provide much info on how it will work out. (though they wouldn't provide info if they had it :lol: )
The bottom line is that Nissan has every economic incentive to move forward with the roll-out as quickly as they can produce Leafs. A this point the major stumbling block is getting the plant back to full production, and being able to sustain that through supply line and electrical issues.

 

[kmp647]

The truth is it would have never worked to sell 2011 leaf cars into tier 2 without the cold package. I knew that all along and that's why in early December I asked Nissan about the cold package , knowing my order time was less than 30 days away(or so I thought)

They said they had no news then 10 days later we get the delayed til " late summer 2011"

That was the cold pack delay no doubt

Then we have the disaster and it's all up in the air (god bless Japan)

Now originally I think Nissan had planned to start building cold pack cars in may of this year

But I think that got put on hold till the model chngeover in October after the quake

I do know some cold package cars were built already as I saw video of these being used in a Japanese ride and drive event in February .

Well anyway I"ll wait for my 2012 cold package car wether it be April 2012 or much later

Unless something better comes along

 

[NullPointer]

... in early December I asked Nissan about the cold package ... They said they had no news then 10 days later we get the delayed til " late summer 2011"

Aha, so YOU'RE the reason Tier 2 was delayed!

 

[kmp647]

UH OH :shock:

ok dont blame me but it didnt make sense for Nissan to sell the car in Virginia Maryland and DC
without the cold package. I kept asking (along with many others I am sure) and then came the delay.

course that doesnt explain Florida...... but they were just grouped in with tier2

either way its going to be a while but at least we get a car that will not just work, but be comfortable in our climate here.

 

[defiancecp]

It doesn't matter if they "promised" or if these were estimates. Who cares. Making a big deal out of whether it was a guarantee or an estimate is kinda missing the point just a bit.

Bottom line is, tier 2 was originally estimated to order around end of 2011, and 3 soon after.

Now, a year later, they are just about *0* days closer to ordering. If that's not jacked up, nothing is.

 

[TRONZ]

They said they had no news then 10 days later we get the delayed til " late summer 2011"

That was the cold pack delay no doubt

Then we have the disaster and it's all up in the air (god bless Japan).

Don't forget to insert the little Japanese Market Tax Incentive snafu as well. It is safe to say that Nissan has been thrown some huge curve balls in the past six months. It's amazing so many people around the world have LEAFs already.

 

[tps]

The truth is it would have never worked to sell 2011 leaf cars into tier 2 without the cold package. I knew that all along and that's why in early December I asked Nissan about the cold package , knowing my order time was less than 30 days away(or so I thought)

They said they had no news then 10 days later we get the delayed til " late summer 2011"

That was the cold pack delay no doubt

Well, I did the obvious, which is what I should have done earlier, I sent Nissan a short email and their response had 2 pieces of interesting information:

1. "At this time in our distribution of the LEAF we are still focusing on the warmer weather states ( per our original plan). We started to deliver them in CA,OR, WA, AZ, TX, and TN. Now we are starting to include GA and FL. By the end of this year, beginning of 2012, we will be in all 50 states."

2. "Your reservation will allow you to order a LEAF as soon as your state has them."

A former GM battery engineer for the EV1 project, with whom I working on an unrelated project, told me, when I asked him, that a battery heater was probably necessary in colder areas of the US.

 

[kmp647]

Is that a recent email?

First I have heard of GA and Florida being added to tier 1

So I wonder when GA and FL get to order?