The Definitive "CLICKING NOISE FROM FRONT OR REAR AXLE DURING TAKE-OFF/ACCELERATION" list

[BillAinCT]

@KeepTheCoalInTheHole : Yes, this is exactly what mine is doing on both sides with one minor difference. Mine isn't as much of a metallic click as yours. It is just a lower tone clunk. Maybe if if I recorded from outside the car it would be like yours.

I've driven without the radio for days and with the windows down when I can, and I now agree that it must be the axle nut torque. I say this because my left axle clicks consistently at one force and with a little more braking or acceleration the right one then clicks. If I accelerate pretty hard, then both go almost the same time but left is slightly before the right.

To me, one way of thinking of this is to go with much higher torque (unless 133 ft lb is that torque), so it takes a lot of acceleration or braking to overcome the friction and cause the axle to shift causing the click. Another way to think of it is to go with much lower torque (is that the 2013 89 ft lb torque?) so that the axle can easily shift from one edge to the other and then there would be no click because there wouldn't be the axle releasing where it suddenly jumps to the other position.

 

[KeepTheCoalInTheHole]

I’m not sure my issue is what is outlined in the TSB now to be frank.

It could be any number of things making noise.

For example, it could be the noise of brake pads shifting.

Like this:

Or this (time stamp 54 seconds)


When I have a bit more time I will take it all apart again and have another look.

 

[BillAinCT]

I was able to prove the axle click after stopping hard by slowly getting up to 30MPH and then hitting the pedal harder to get the clicking to occur. At 30MPH I have to assume the brakes are not in the equation. Same with stopping. At 50MPH in e-pedal mode if I lift off the gas far enough to get 1/2 the regen bars (which is long before it adds mechanical brakes) I get the clicking. Because it takes different force on each side I can also make just one side click slowing and accelerating without the other side clicking. I was planning on the fix today, but my luck is that it rained and is in the low 40's after what was a beautiful week.

 

[LeafG]

It needs to be greased. Extremely common

 

[sooleaf]

Hey LeafG Do you mean the axles or the break pad clips need to be greased?

 

[BillAinCT]

It needs to be greased. Extremely common

Why would that alone stop the clicking? What part is seizing and being released under force that needs grease?

 

[Wef]

Not enough clue .could be brake pads ,could be lower ball joint come loose.

 

[BillAinCT]

I did this today. I was going to do one side and the other another day but just did them both.

As others mentioned unstaking the nut is the hardest part. I ended up drilling it out parallel with the axle once I got the stake raised as much as I could with the chisel. One came off with a fair bit of force. The second I did better and came off with just slightly more than hand force. It took a lot of effort to initially get them to move.

I had to hold the axle pushed in while painting the grease to allow extra room. The inside bearings were bone dry. The outside showed signs of being greased so I did both bearing sides quite liberally. For the outside I taped the threads so as to not grease them.

The new nuts went back on easily and I torqued to 138 ft lb. Staking was nothing like it looked from the factory. I had trouble getting it quite as deep. They must use an impact tool that surrounds the nut and slams a pin at the key. They're staked enough that I can't see them coming off. Unlike some videos I at least didn't cut the edge of the nut or damage it.

I tested it and it's completely resolved. No clicking or knocking. Full regen and hard acceleration and it's like the car was when new. And it's not the brake pads shifting as I thought it might be.

One thing I saw on a video is the car was in neutral so he could spin the hub to grease from one spot. I didn't see how that can be done without putting a rod on the brake pedal enough to get into neutral (with the car on with 2 starts and NO pedal down). Pushing the axle in fully while greasing allowed enough room to paint from the bottom and top without hitting anything not intended to be.

 

[LanguidSphinx]

I am looking at doing this job, but wondering about the torque spec for a 2018 ZE1. The factory manual would be the authoritative source - anyone managed to gain access to one? I will be calling local dealers as well to try and confirm.

This SKF document has torque values (page 22) that seem to agree with what others in this thread have said and with the TSB in the first page for various model years. However, the 2018 is called out separately to the others, AND it has an error - one of the torque values must be wrong, because the ft-lb to Nm conversion doesn't work!

My thoughts are that the 2018 spec must be wrong in the Nm - the ft-lb is in the area of the other years that use the staked nut, and the 250Nm value is way high. Anyone got an authoritative source?

Also of interest - looks like they might have gone back to nut and cotter pin on later 2019 onwards - the very early models with nut and cotter have higher values and so do the 2019+ EDIT - probably not, see next reply.

[134] With post VIN code 1N4BZ1CP8KC303774 tighten nut to 129 ft-lbs/175 Nm. With prior VIN code 1N4BZ1CP8KC303774 Use new nut, tighten nut to 81 ft-lbs/110 Nm stake the nut.

 

[BillAinCT]

Also of interest - looks like they might have gone back to nut and cotter pin on later 2019 onwards - the very early models with nut and cotter have higher values and so do the 2019+

I'm unsure what you're saying by "on later 2019 onwards". So I'm adding that my 2022 had no cotter pin.

 

[LanguidSphinx]

OK, it was a theory and must be wrong I was going off the very early models with cotter pin and standard nut having higher torque, then the middle group of years having lower, then back to higher from 2019 on as correlating with standard or one time use nut. It was a nice explanation in my head for the torque values.

 

[BillAinCT]

No worries. The TSBs are so ambiguous and online research has the torque all over the place, so I was never clear on it. It's also unclear whether it's the torque or the greasing that is key to the fix, or if it's both things. I will say, if there is constant movement of the axle, then the grease would silence the release as it gives to move. My axle nuts were not under tightened, but the bearings were bone dry on both sides, so my opinion is that the greasing is what's resolving the clicking. People seem to be doing their own thing on this repair/fix, including some not staking the new axle nuts. Let us know how it turns out for you.

 

[LanguidSphinx]

>The TSBs are so ambiguous and online research has the torque all over the place

OH HECK YES. this has been the last 2 days on and off of my internet searching

In the SKF document above i found this gem of info - the bearing manufacturer seems a reliable source so I believe it, and want to get the correct torque figure!

“One of the leading causes of improper fit or premature wheel hub failure is improper torquing of the bolts and nuts that secure the wheel hub and tire. Most drive axle wheel hubs have a center axle nut that must be torqued down onto the axle shaft to a specific torque value. Putting the proper torque on the center axle nut sets the preload for the bearing and keeps the bearing from separating while in operation. The torque specification for this center axle nut is critical to performance and function of the wheel hub.“

my opinion is that the greasing is what's resolving the clicking.

I think along the same lines. I am less inclined to believe it's some sort of assembly error as some people do, because a little online research shows this to be common on many Nissan ICE vehicles from before the Leaf - I would hope such an obvious and known issue wouldn't persist across multiple years, models, and factories. I think it just comes up on the Leaf because an ICE noise masks it.

not staking the new axle nuts

er... no. I will be staking as designed and intended! I design products myself (not automotive) and everything costs something, nothing is there for fun. If it's a staked nut it's there for a reason - if they could save money by using a standard one they would.

EDIT1: SKF got back to me very promptly and acknowledged the error i mention above in thier doc, and it has been forwarded to whoever for an answer on the ft lb or the Nm being correct. Also waiting on a response from a couple of Nissan dealers.

EDIT2: Dealer responded and said by VIN lookup that a 2018 ZE1 needs 178Nm torque on the nut

 

[denwood]

For the 2018, SKF calls for 89 ft/lbs. I called the local Nissan Service dept and they gave me the same value, 89 ft/lbs.

This makes no sense as the drive shaft and bearing assembly for the 2018 and newer are all the same parts...and 2019 calls for 134 ft/lbs ( https://cdn.skfmediahub.skf.com/api...edium/094dddb2a353170f_pdf_preview_medium.pdf ) I won't try and figure this out, but if the 2019 calls for exactly the same parts, and axle nut torque for the same parts in a 2019 is 134ft/lbs, not sure where Nissan is getting these values from.

Now, I have a new set of Timken wheel bearing assemblies going in along with a new axle shaft (OE right side CV joint is done). Parts for the 2018 and up LEAF are a bit odd in that Timken and Moog don't list the wheel bearing assembly for 2018 and up, but SKF does, BR930872. However, Timken lists HA590538, and Moog lists 513364 as identical parts to the SKF BR930872...so pretty sure the parts guys gave me the correct bits.

With a new axle shaft and Timken wheel/hub assembly in hand, I can tell you that the fit becomes interference, with about 1" left to go, suggesting there would be zero chance of any clicking if the dry joints are properly torqued (in my case for the 2018, 89ft/lbs. I'll check with the old parts to see how much spline/axle play there is. I will say that when checking the car (which looks to have had the "clicking" TSB applied) the shafts slid right out. If we have an interference fit, the shafts should not just slide out!

 

[BillAinCT]

It sure would be nice to get to the bottom of this! The conflicting information will make you dizzy!

 

[LanguidSphinx]

For the 2018, SKF calls for 89 ft/lbs. I called the local Nissan Service dept and they gave me the same value, 89 ft/lbs.

This makes no sense as the drive shaft and bearing assembly for the 2018 and newer are all the same parts...and 2019 calls for 134 ft/lbs ( https://cdn.skfmediahub.skf.com/api...edium/094dddb2a353170f_pdf_preview_medium.pdf ) I won't try and figure this out, but if the 2019 calls for exactly the same parts, and axle nut torque for the same parts in a 2019 is 134ft/lbs, not sure where Nissan is getting these values from.

Agreed - the hgiher value makes more sense to me as well. I suspect because 2018 is a changover first of the ZE1 models that maybe there's stale info in some publications. When my new staked nuts arrive I plan to try and measure the torque needed to take off the factory nuts.

With a new axle shaft and Timken wheel/hub assembly in hand, I can tell you that the fit becomes interference, with about 1" left to go, suggesting there would be zero chance of any clicking if the dry joints are properly torqued (in my case for the 2018, 89ft/lbs. I'll check with the old parts to see how much spline/axle play there is. I will say that when checking the car (which looks to have had the "clicking" TSB applied) the shafts slid right out. If we have an interference fit, the shafts should not just slide out!

Very interested to know!

 

[BillAinCT]

When my new staked nuts arrive I plan to try and measure the torque needed to take off the factory nuts.

I decided to do the same. I drilled out the stake so there wasn't extra force shaving out more metal (and not wanting to damage the threads). But the "sticktion" to get the nut to initially move was well above 150 ft/lb. In fact I needed an 18" breaker bar and 150 pounds (me) bouncing on the end of the bar to break the force. Thought for a second I was out a tool. Once it popped it came right off with some force. The other side I did better removing the stake and came off by hand. Clear out the stake and it will come off easy peasy. Staking, I was not able to make it nearly as nice and clean as the factory. They must use an impact hammer to knock that perfect rectangle in the key.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Different stresses? Maybe they figured something out. One is later than the other.

 

[denwood]

It sure would be nice to get to the bottom of this! The conflicting information will make you dizzy!

I'm just going to use 134 ft/lbs for my 2018 as per the 2019 and up spec. The axle, steering knuckle, ABS speed sensor and hub/bearing are the same for 2018 and up.

As far as using Molykote 77 on the rear wheel bearing surface (the TSB does not call for lubing the splines!) I'm pretty sure that is just to make sure the axle is pulled fully in contact with the rear surface of the bearing race, particularly given these relatively low torque values. There are a few videos out there stating that Hydrolocking the joint is possible by lubing axle splines...which makes zero sense if you look at the splines, axle and mating surfaces. Grease under pressure can exit via the splines, or curved surface at the rear of the bearing.

The audible click has to be coming from play between the hub and axle splines, combined with 239 ft/lbs (or more) of torque at pretty much zero rpm. This is likely why you've seen a few reports of dealers replacing the axle, along with the wheel bearing to address the issue. These parts should have an interference fit from the factory...a tolerance that is not easy to maintain in manufacturing. It's also why you'll see aftermarket suppliers etc. advising not to lube the splines at all.

I'll shoot a video of the work with the old and new parts in hand. A few of the videos out there have errors for sure. SKF for example is pretty specific about snugging the bearing up in the air only, and doing final torque with the wheel attached and on the ground.

 

[BillAinCT]

Because the video in post #34 was by a fellow who worked for Nissan and lubed both sides, I followed this. He's as close as I'm going to get to an authoritative answer as to how do to this. I torqued to 138 ft/lb - a little more for good measure. In fact I calibrated my torque wrench with a specific weight on the handle and it did need a slight adjustment.

I did this 3 months ago and so far so good.