# Understanding Lease Offer

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#### MalachiConstant

##### Active member
In Seattle, WA.

I'm about to lease a 2022 Nissan Lease SV w/Tech. I'm out of state but will be back next weekend to tie this up.

Here are the numbers:

24-month lease
MSRP: \$38,380
Rebate: \$9,800
Money Factor: .00003
Residual: \$22,260.40 Base Monthly Rental: \$391.70
Total Monthly Payment: \$391.70

They confirmed that there are no doc fees or hidden costs, and the only thing due upon signing in \$391.70 for my first month's lease payment.

The thing I don't understand, is that in the first e-mail, he said 'With only the fees and 1st month payment down you're only at \$333.76'.
When I asked if that meant I didn't have to pay anything at all in Day 1, he said 'the numbers on true zero down were just under \$400.'

So is that taking some fees etc. that would usually be due up-front and spreading them across 24 months?

This still seems like a very good deal? Thanks for any help/input!

^^
You are set up to be reamed.

Dealerships talk about leases in a way meant to be confusing to consumers but they can be understood this way:
The car starting value is MSRP less \$9,800 rebates/discounts
38,300 - 9,800 = \$28,500

At end of lease the car's remaining value is set at \$22,260,
So your total rent is the sum of:
(1) 28,500 - 22,600
(2) Finance charges on the entire car value of 38,300
(3) Tax on (1)+(2)

Convert 'money factor' to APR by multiplying by 2,400

If you have written the money factor correctly, that cost is peanuts
You will have to say what the taxes are in your state/locality
(1) = \$5,900.
Spread over 24 months, your monthly rent equals 5900/24 = \$245.8 a month
Even if tax is 10%, the monthly payment would be 245.8*1.1 = \$270.38

Dealerships play all sorts of games with money. If the car listed for \$333 was a similar car with no Tech Package, that would explain it. If it's the very same car, then it does appear that they are burying extra fees in the payment. You can ask for a printout with ALL fees included in the payment disclosed.

Thanks so much for this- so you're saying that the numbers here aren't adding up, meaning they have some sort of hidden fees that are buried in here.
Car value is \$28,500, minus the residual at the end of the lease leaves \$5,900. Divide this by 24 = \$246.
But I'm being charged \$392, so they are tacking on some extra charges. Even with taxes and the small interest rate, this is way too high.

I read that with the silicone shortage, cars are going for sticker price and the demand is insane. Is this something I have some leverage on with the dealership? I haven't signed yet (they should get me the paperwork tomorrow), and want to make sure I approach this correctly.

Thanks again!

MalachiConstant said:
Thanks so much for this- so you're saying that the numbers here aren't adding up, meaning they have some sort of hidden fees that are buried in here.
Car value is \$28,500, minus the residual at the end of the lease leaves \$5,900. Divide this by 24 = \$246.
But I'm being charged \$392, so they are tacking on some extra charges. Even with taxes and the small interest rate, this is way too high.
Right

The only thing I can think of is if you have a car that you can trade in - dealerships are clamoring for decent used cars. Even if you are leasing, you can get them to buy your leased car, rather than just give it back to them.

\$28580.00 after rebate

-\$22260.40 residual amount

\$6319.60/24 months= \$263.30 per month. I wish leases were as simple as this but they are not.

All leases have the following fees:

Fees associated with the transaction: listed in line 18,19,22,23 of the lease disclosure pdf. For the sake of transparency, I sent you the numbers exactly as they are on the screen.

\$655.50 acquisition fee

\$1195 Bellevue Nissan PRO PACK (INSTALLED ON ALL OUR NEW VEHICLES)

\$150 doc fee

\$2650.50/24 months= \$110.43 per month( most of customers put the fees as down payment)

The rest of the payment is paid towards the rent charge(money factor)

I can handle this payment, I just want to make sure I’m not getting screwed. I know inventory is (apparently) very low because of the silicon shortage.

Overall, is this a decent lease deal? Thanks again for the input.

What the heck is "Bellevue Nissan PRO PACK"? Sounds like a ripoff/way for dealer to line their pockets.

Doc fee of \$150 sounds right per https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/what-fees-should-you-pay.html. Someone else in the PNW will have to comment on whether the license fees make sense if you can't find a calculator page/estimate. I dug around at https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/fees.html and hit a dead end. One could ask in https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/.

Googling for lease acquisition fee nmac turned up https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/nissan-raising-lease-acquisition-fee-on-april-2 from 2019.

I haven't read this thread carefully, but rather than focus on the monthly payment, instead focus on the TOTAL cost of lease over its entire life (e.g. down payment (if any) + all monthly payments and any fees). Then compare TOTAL COST of LEASE with another dealer for the exact same car in terms of trim level and equipment.

One can always make a monthly payment low and "feel good" (?) by having a big down payment. But, from everything I've read, that puts you at risk. In many (most?) cases, if you total a leased car, you get nothing back, so it's best to put down as little as possible, like \$0. I've only leased a car once and I put down \$0. I was fine w/paying slightly more for interest over the life of the lease in exchange for putting less \$ at risk.

There should also be a \$395 disposition fee that NMAC should bill you when you return your car at end of lease and don't buy out your car or lease/buy another new Nissan/Infiniti. This will be in your contract.

(I lived in the PNW for about 9 years awhile ago and there was a former Bellevue Nissan, part of the Melody group that also had a Kirkland Nissan dealer. They both closed down and were that way for years. Someone else (?) I think resurrected the name many years later and at a totally different location.)

That "Pro Pack" sounds like pure profit for them and something like questionable paint and fabric protectant for you. It's an automatic undisclosed \$1200 added to all their cars. Keep this in mind. While probably not worthless, I'd say you are giving them at least \$600 for this. Factor that in.

There are 4 basic factors the are used to determine lease cost
MSRP
CAP COST (negotiable = what you are actually paying for the car)
MONEY FACTOR (interest rate =MFx2400)
RESIDUAL % (usually set by NMAC based on length of lease and allowable miles driven) based on a % of MSRP, not CAP cost.

There will also always be other fees in a lease vs a outright sale.
Acquisition fee (currently \$650 with NMAC included in net acquisition fee)
Disposition fee (paid when you terminate the lease)

This dealer’s Pro pack, the “Pro” stands for additional PROFIT, \$1150 on a 24 month lease is adding \$50/mo. Outrageous.

Remember, if you can negotiate \$1200 off the CAP cost your payment would drop \$50/mo on a 2 year lease.

Thanks for this- here are the details on the pro pack I received in response:

We put the Bellevue Pro pack on all our vehicles. It gives you door cup guards that prevent fingernail scratches also door edge guards that prevent door chips. You also get free wash and vacuum service here at Bellevue Nissan. Along with these you get interior and exterior warranty. It protects against paint fade pet stains small rips amongst many other coverages.

I spoke with management this morning and we can offer pro pack for one dollar over our cost. That puts it at \$1000 we won't take the doc fees off.

There is an extreme shortage on these vehicles in the State right now. We are selling our stock before it arrives on the trucks.

With that being said you are receiving our best offer with the discounted Propack.

MalachiConstant said:
In Seattle, WA.

I'm about to lease a 2022 Nissan Lease SV w/Tech. I'm out of state but will be back next weekend to tie this up.

Here are the numbers:

24-month lease
MSRP: \$38,380
Rebate: \$9,800
Money Factor: .00003
Residual: \$22,260.40 Base Monthly Rental: \$391.70
Total Monthly Payment: \$391.70

They confirmed that there are no doc fees or hidden costs, and the only thing due upon signing in \$391.70 for my first month's lease payment.

The thing I don't understand, is that in the first e-mail, he said 'With only the fees and 1st month payment down you're only at \$333.76'.
When I asked if that meant I didn't have to pay anything at all in Day 1, he said 'the numbers on true zero down were just under \$400.'

So is that taking some fees etc. that would usually be due up-front and spreading them across 24 months?

This still seems like a very good deal? Thanks for any help/input!

Which dealership is this? Your cashout price is over \$31K. That is pretty high. That is just about what I was offered on an SV Plus with tech.

I would talk to Ray at Campbell Nissan in "Everett" (there is one in Edmonds so make sure its Everett)

EDIT

Ok, so after I post, all these responses show up. Bellevue Nissan explains a TON here. First off; Demand is high, supply is not so higher prices are expected.

First off the fees that "all leases" have.

Doc fee; \$150 is the price I have paid for EVERY car purchased in my 3+ decades in WA

Acquisition fee; \$650 is what I have (Lease Nov 2019 from Campbell Everett. The only thing that has changed that I am aware of is the \$5,000 reduction in the sales tax exemption)

License Fees; One of the many things I have bragged about being a multi-lessee is the lower cost of EV tab fees @ \$225 a year and the reason is new vehicles do not have this fee. Only applies to renewals BUT there is also the RTA tax so that might be what you see. I would get clarification on that. My license fee is zero. Bellevue add ons? Obviously don't have those but Campbell had add ons and I simply said I want a car w/o the add ons so they took the cost off the price.

Now we get into the process of how the monthly is determined. ALL my fees and first monthly payment were taken from the "down payment" which means it was rolled into the "adjusted capitalized cost" which (according to my lease) is the figure used to determine your monthly payment.

It would appear that Bellevue Nissan did not do this. By not doing this, you are responsible for the entire amount. In my case, I am responsible for the entire amount as well but part of it goes to the monthly, part of it goes to the residual.

Now, its hard to compare leases in different times but I also got a 24 month lease, 15,000 miles on a car with MSRP a hair under \$40,000. 23 payments of \$380.87 and a residual of \$19,100. Another point to clarify; My MF is MUCH higher than yours (I am missing zero on mine) so my rent charge is significant while yours is probably less than \$200.

If all that didn't get your head spinning, my deal had other complications because I turned in my 2018 16 months early (3 year lease) which increased the price of my Plus a bit.

That "package" is worth even less than I thought, as they don't actually do anything to the car's paint or fabric - it's just a very, very expensive wear & tear insurance policy, and I'll bet they are terrible about honoring it. I'm not saying not to take the offer, but keep in mind that they are crooks, and have the car serviced elsewhere if you do lease it. Dave makes a good point about the money factor, so consider it a roughly \$700 ripoff rather than a \$1000 ripoff.

Got it- I think I'm going to take this deal. It works for me, and I understand it thanks to these comments, so thank you. The finance person is going to call me in an hour. Anything I should look out for?

They will try to push service plans and aftermarket warranties on you. Reject them.

DaveinOlyWA said:
I would talk to Ray at Campbell Nissan in "Everett" (there is one in Edmonds so make sure its Everett)
I've heard many positive things in https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/ about Ray (Raied) Ishak. If I were still in the PNW and in the market for a Leaf, I'd for sure a least check w/him.

Also, ages ago, I bought two new Nissans (in 01 and 03) from Steve Perovich when he was at Nissan of Fife. I'm pretty sure he's not there now, but I wouldn't hesitate to check w/him, as well if I were still up there in the market for Nissan.

WA state fees:
https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/docs/VehicleFees.pdf

Here is a another way to think about the lease:
The offer is to pay 390*24 = \$9,360 for two years of use of a car that can be bought for \$28,000 before federal tax credit

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/ used to be up to date then paused for awhile. Seems like https://electrek.co/best-electric-vehicle-leases/#Nissan was the place to look instead. Obviously, those are apples to orange comparisons and I can't speak to how legit the dealers/deals are but that's a starting point.

Sounds like the lease cost is 391.7 * 24 = \$9400.8 for total payments. Doesn't sound like a good deal on a 2 year lease.

I've been LEAF shopping. My impression is that Nissan is enforcing residency requirements for leases but not for sales. It is straightforward to buy a car from where ever and ship it home for \$500 - \$1,000. That has the advantage of skirting the dealer doc and paperwork fees since it is pretty easy to say "I'll take care of it locally."

I haven't bought yet because I really only want a 40 kWh LEAF, but with a good battery. That forces me to go to the dealership.
If I buy a 62 kWh LEAF I'm willing to blindly accept battery degradation, but that is some \$5,000 more expensive.

This place
https://www.claycooleynissan.com/searchnew.aspx?make=Nissan&model=LEAF
Offered me the 40 kWh SV model for \$28.5k out the door, not including the TT&L I would handle locally, as well as shipping
They list it for under \$27k, but tack on \$2k in 'dealer add-ons.'
The most they were willing to knock off the dealer garbage was \$500

So for an out of state shopper who can take advantage of the full federal tax credit the car costs \$21.5k - \$22k depending on shipping, before local TT&L

Here's a post recently on leasehackr, a car leasing forum. It's in CA so there's an included \$1500 rebate for CA residents. They also have a leasing calculator that will tell you if a lease is good or not.

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/signed-new-2021-nissan-leaf-s-24-month-10k-per-year-201-month-including-tax-0-drive-off/374940

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