Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

[TomT]

A number of other sources have suggested that there is actually more to it than that, and that is a more sophisticated cheat involving more than just steering angle... We won't know for sure until the true story and code comes out.

The solution, rather than relying on deep software integration, is almost shockingly low-tech.

 

[Stoaty]

Looks like compliance with the recall will be enforced in California:

"Within six months after a dealer recall involving emissions, the Air Resource Boards's David Clegern said, the manufacturers must supply vehicle identification numbers for the vehicles that have not had their recall repairs completed, and follow up with monthly updates on compliance."

"These names are flagged by DMV and owners are not allowed to register their vehicle until the recall is performed," Clegern said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-california-dmv-vw-diesel-20150921-story.html

 

[redLEAF]

Apparently, this isn't just VW ...

http://fortune.com/2015/09/24/volkswagen-bmw-emissions/

 

[TomT]

The same group that found the VW/Audi cheat also tested a number of BMWs and found that they all meet the standard and complied.. Thus, I suspect that this case is an anomaly and an outlier...

Apparently, this isn't just VW ...

 

[Nubo]

This is an opportunity for VW to re-invent itself (or be forced to re-invent itself) as a zero-emissions car company. I'd love to see that be the mandate rather than a bazillion-dollar fine.

On the bright side anti-EV zealots will have to find something other than the mythical "VW TDI Clean Diesel" for their arguments.

 

[edatoakrun]

Many new reports coming out worldwide, casting doubts as to VW and other manufacture's compliance with emission regulations in other markets.

See the directory with links here:

Diesel Debacle Central, Thursday early edition

September 24, 2015 By Bertel Schmitt

http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/diesel-debacle-central-thursday-early-edition/

I think it will be a while before we know just how widespread "cheating", both intentional and through negligence, has been under the various emission certification programs.

I doubt the scandal will end with diesels, either.

What we will see, is how well the ICEV manufactures have complied with what is essentially the honor system which allows them to represent their vehicle emissions will replicate the limited conditions of government tests, in all real-world conditions.

BMW in particular, is not looking so good:

Shoes drop in diesel debacle: In the EU, BMW X3 worse than Passat, other cars affected, more heads to roll

September 24, 2015 By Bertel Schmitt

If Volkswagen’s diesel debacle causes such an uproar in mostly diesel-disinclined America, what would be the effect of cheating found in Europe, where half of the cars run on oil? We are about to find out. Volkswagen’s cheaters are on Europe’s roads, and assumed clean BMW finds itself dirty.

Germany’s Minister of Transport Alexander Dobrindt said today, investigators dispatched to Wolfsburg were told that manipulated diesel-VWs have been sold in European markets. “We have been informed that also in Europe, vehicles with 1.6 and 2.0 liter diesel engines are affected by the manipulations that are being talked about,” Dobrindt told Reuters. Details are still being researched. However, it is a safe bet that the number is vastly higher than the 500,000 cheater diesels in the U.S. Most of the 11 million globally affected VWs most likely were sold in Europe. The minister said that cars will be re-checked for compliance, and that the checks will be extended to other brand than those of Volkswagen, says Der Spiegel.

Germany’s hard-hitting AUTO BILD meanwhile reports that in a real-world road test, BMW’s X3 x drive produced NOx eleven times higher than the Euro 6 norm. This is much worse than the scandal-ridden Passat in the US. A BMW spokesman denied the existence of any defeat devices. “BMW’s have no function to identify emissions testing,” the spokesman said. BMW was previously assumed to be unaffected by the spreading scandal. Stock site Seekingalpha recommended yesterday night to buy BMW, because “BMW’s cars are clean.” This morning, BMW shares fell 7 percent...

http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/shoes-drop-in-diesel-debacle-in-the-eu-bmw-x3-worse-than-passat-other-cars-affected/

 

[redLEAF]

The same group that found the VW/Audi cheat also tested a number of BMWs and found that they all meet the standard and complied.. Thus, I suspect that this case is an anomaly and an outlier...

Apparently, this isn't just VW ...

Could be simply guilt by association although they haven't yet released all the details; this graphic shows a bit more ...

 

[evnow]

What is mind boggling is that - the conversation between EPA and VW has been going on for a long time. VW even issued a recall last year to patch the cars - and EPA kept up the pressure since the patch didn't result in lower emissions.

Apparently VW accepted the guilt only when EPA refused to certify MY16.

Not sure what kind of hubris would drive this kind of behavior by VW.

The irony is that the guys who found this were actually trying to show how clean diesel is !

 

[TimLee]

...
Not sure what kind of hubris would drive this kind of behavior by VW.
...

Seems to be the ever increasing lack of ethics by more and more businesses.

The use of engine shutoff to improve EPA test results when in the real world the 12V battery cannot handle that duty is also pretty unethical too.

 

[evnow]

...
Not sure what kind of hubris would drive this kind of behavior by VW.
...

Seems to be the ever increasing lack of ethics by more and more businesses.

Even leaving out the ethics question - purely from a business risk perspective - this looks amateurish. Did VW really think - they can get away with this fraud - even after EPA started questioning them and showing real world results ?

Would be interesting to see if any other auto maker comes out with any faults. If anyone else is doing it - this would be the ideal time to come out and get it over with.

Mod note : moved from off-topic forum since this has the potential to affect EVs.

 

[Valdemar]

What I find unusual is that admitted their guilt up front. They could deny any wrongdoing, lawyer up, blame it on a bug in software and provide a patch that detunes the engine without providing much details, no one would probably even notice mpg decrease. In other words they could do it like every other car manufacturer.

 

[davewill]

What I find unusual is that admitted their guilt up front. They could deny any wrongdoing, lawyer up, blame it on a bug in software and provide a patch that detunes the engine without providing much details, no one would probably even notice mpg decrease. In other words they could do it like every other car manufacturer.

If a software patch would have done it, they would have done that the first time the cars were recalled. I suspect the cars need significant upgrades in their emissions systems to pass the tests for real. Also, any decrease in mileage or performance would certainly have been noticed and become the basis of a lawsuit...which will end up happening anyway.

 

[Foschas]

This article says both hardware and software Upgrades are needed.

"Dealers, he said, were told that there will be both software and hardware changes to fix the problem. They're already on 2016 models and are awaiting approval from the Environmental Protection Agency, Backer said. Older models will get the same fixes, he said."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-volkswagen-scandal-dealers-owners-20150924-story.html

 

[evnow]

What I find unusual is that admitted their guilt up front. They could deny any wrongdoing, lawyer up, blame it on a bug in software and provide a patch that detunes the engine without providing much details, no one would probably even notice mpg decrease. In other words they could do it like every other car manufacturer.

Hmmm ... no. An examination of emails probably will give a lot of information. I'd be surprised if this conspiracy has no email trails.

 

[edatoakrun]

What I find unusual is that admitted their guilt up front....

Not exactly.

I seems that VW only admitted guilt long after its violations were detected, only after VW had stalled the investigative process for as long as it could, and found itself facing immediate sanctions.

...The WVU researchers placed emission-monitoring equipment on a rented 2012 Jetta and a 2013 Passat (in February 2013). Over seven weeks in spring 2013, they drove the cars around Los Angeles and up the West Coast to Seattle, comparing them to a BMW x5 sport-utility with a diesel engine, said Daniel Carder, who led the WVU team. While the BMW’s emission results came in under what the vehicles produced in laboratory tests, those of the Jetta were 15 to 35 times higher than the legal limit and the Passat 10 to 20 times higher.

Soon after, the same rental cars tested by WVU were monitored in CARB's El Monte, California, test facility east of Los Angeles. There were no irregular emissions.

Over the next 12 months, the West Virginia University researchers analyzed the data. They presented their findings at a March 31, 2014, conference in San Diego partly sponsored by California regulators and the EPA...

A formal acknowledgement of the deception came on Sept. 3 (2015), when the EPA and California officials held a conference call with Volkswagen executives in Germany and the U.S. During the call, the automaker went over written details provided to the participants explaining how software used in its diesel cars was able to manipulate emissions tests in the United States.

That admission came after the EPA threatened to withhold approval for the company's 2016 Volkswagen and Audi diesel models, according to a letter sent by the EPA to Johnson and VW's attorney. The letter detailed some of the timetable of the EPA's actions.

So ended 15 months of back-and-forth between Volkswagen and U.S. and California regulators who had come to suspect that the diesel engines were producing higher nitrogen oxide emissions during normal driving conditions than what was certified by the EPA and California...

http://news.yahoo.com/stonewalling-volkswagen-stunned-u-regulators-confession-213518894--finance.html

 

[JimSouCal]

I've thought about this... I never believed diesel was "clean". Period.

However, if I bought a VW diesel and relied on that stated promise, I'd be asking them to take my car back, and compensate for damages beyond financial. "Fixed" cars, as others have stated, will drive with markedly reduced performance.

More so, if in legal terms, one establishes a sincere reliance on the VW diesel's performance and meeting pollution standards, I think they are pretty wide open to getting hit with legitimate large claims...

On their end, I'd suggest a buyout tradeout program, and they crush and recycle the bad cars... Again, I really can't believe anybody thought they would actually get away with this long term and grand scale...

 

[evnow]

May be they thought EPA will be as toothless and compromises as the EU agencies. It probably would have been if a Republican was at the helm.

 

[cwerdna]

Seems to be the ever increasing lack of ethics by more and more businesses.

The use of engine shutoff to improve EPA test results when in the real world the 12V battery cannot handle that duty is also pretty unethical too.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. IIRC, the EPA grants credits some (slight) mpg credit for incorporating auto start-stop systems because the way the EPA test cycles are, you will see little benefit on EPA numbers.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/engine-stop-start-systems-explained-tech-dept
"Ford recently announced that its stop-start system, available on some 2012 cars and SUVs, has the real-world potential to boost fuel economy by “as much as 10 percent.” Mazda, more concerned with EPA results, says a 3 with i-stop gains only one-tenth of one percent on the EPA city cycle. Therefore, U.S. Mazdas will do without stop-start until it can be part of a worthwhile package of efficiency improvements"

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1064470_fuel-saving-mazda-i-stop-stalled-in-u-s-because-of-epa-tests
"the existing EPA test cycle, for gas mileage and emissions, doesn't show the benefits of start-stop systems.

"We can't find a way to show a monetary benefit for the consumer," said U.S. spokesman Jeremy Barnes, within the framework of the EPA fuel-economy numbers that appear on window stickers. In company tests, i-Stop affected the official EPA fuel economy test-test cycle results by barely more than a tenth of a mile per gallon..."

Same deal at http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/12/mazda-epa-test-keeps-stop-start-out/.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html has some test results.

As for "12V battery cannot handle that duty", is there such an auto-start vehicle that has this problem?

 

[DaveEV]

The plot thickens:

UK, France and Germany lobbied for flawed car emissions tests, documents reveal :: The Guardian

The UK, France and Germany have been accused of hypocrisy for lobbying behind the scenes to keep outmoded car tests for carbon emissions, but later publicly calling for a European investigation into Volkswagen’s rigging of car air pollution tests.

Leaked documents seen by the Guardian show the three countries lobbied the European commission to keep loopholes in car tests that would increase real world carbon dioxide emissions by 14% above those claimed.

 

[TimLee]

...
As for "12V battery cannot handle that duty", is there such an auto-start vehicle that has this problem?

Almost all of them.
The 12V lead acid battery with the limited charging system on most ICE vehicles just does not keep up, other than in the modest duration EPA test cycle.

So in real world driving they deliver only a fraction of the benefit seen in the EPA test.

But as you point out, even that benefit was small and due to that and the near uselessness of them and customers being irritated by frequent 12V battery replacements, some of the manufacturers are getting rid of the start stop systems.