Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

[Lothsahn]

There may be yet another option: buy new cells to replace the worst ones. My bike was converted using new Leaf cells bought from a hybrid car specialty shop in...2014? They were new 2013 cells - likely Canary chemistry but they have held up in the Vectrix well, so far.

EDIT: the site still exists, but has zero Leaf cells or modules in stock. They were also selling tested used ones the last few years. Oh well...

This is true, but likely not too feasible. The cells in the middle tend to get the hottest, and anecdotal evidence shows that replacing them may increase capacity somewhat, however, all of the cells degrade over time, and such a limited swap only will most likely only increase total capacity by 5-15%.

If you're going to do the work of dropping the pack and opening it up, you might as well swap good cells in. Plus, then you have degraded cells that you can use for energy storage projects, etc.

The exception to this is if you're someone like Dala, who had a car with a couple bad cells. This is typically not what most degraded Leaf's look like, however.

 

[cwerdna]

Ran into a colleague at work in the parking lot who stated he will be getting a "re-built" LEAF battery for his out of warranty 2011 vehicle...in the USA. I didn't get a chance to ask him details as he said he found this online. Is he mistaking this for the Japan only program or is there something new here?

Probably. Hopefully you can follow up with him to find out what he meant and what he got.

It irks me that on a bunch of Leaf FB groups some people in the US keep presenting the Japan-only refurb program as a choice for someone in the US. When asked for a source that it became available in the US, they have none. :roll: I asked for that at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=542355#p542355 and it turned into a hostile exchange w/that guy ending up on my foes list.

 

[HiloLeaf]

I've been following this thread and its very discouraging. We have a 2012 leaf, purchased new and have babied the battery in a climate that rarely drops below 60 degrees F and rarely exceeds 80 degrees F. We saw our battery drop to 8 bars a month after warranty expired (when battery replacement was $6,000), and now with 54,000 miles on the vehicle, we are down to 7 bars (we were just quoted $9,000 for a battery replacement). Two words - STUNNED and PARALYZED. Stunned because it is hard to comprehend how NISSAN is allowing their core EV community to feel like they have been so completely duped. Paralyzed because while the car is in good shape, range is so limited that even local driving is starting to be difficult and the car is worth so little ($3500 on the market, less than $2000 dealer trade in) that its not worth selling. Outside of free parking at our local airport (12 miles round trip), its hard to remain positive about this early adventure into supporting the EV transition. This absolutely extends into any thoughts of a new EV purchase from NISSAN. For me this experience has made me an angry cynic about NISSAN EVs and about the company, and skeptical about EVs generally. Now when people stop me to ask about the LEAF, I simply say it was an expensive mistake - even if it has felt good to charge our Leaf using the PV on our roof. Cost of the car plus a new battery at 8 years (assuming we go another year on this battery) greatly exceeds purchase prices and normal maintenance costs for comparable ICE vehicles - and that includes the generous fed and state rebates. And the dream of upscaling to a cheaper and more powerful battery was apparently a complete delusion. And far from a win-win environmental solution, spending half the money on a fuel efficient PRIUS and sending our PV electricity to the grid probably would have been an environmentally and economically more sound strategy.

So....Was the idea of upgrading on the LEAF battery (more capacity and cheaper in 2020 than 2012 when we purchased) something I made up to feel good about spending so much on a vehicle? Is it fair to say that NISSAN EVs are not ready for prime time, with even newer models still having battery longevity issues, and that NISSAN should cede the market to real EV companies? Or do I have a lemon of a battery and I'm just unlucky. Are battery issues something that cut across the EV industry (threads highlight out of warranty battery issues for Tesla can be harsher financially), or has the next generation of EVs from other companies resolved these issues? Maybe most important, do any of EV manufacturers design / allow for future battery upgrades at a lower cost?

 

[goldbrick]

You certainly had about as bad an EV experience as can be imagined. The early Leaf batteries were and are sub-par and more than a few people have ended up in your situation where their car has degraded to the point where it is almost useless, it has very little value and there isn't much that can be done except to pay $$$$ to replace the battery.

I'd say your options are to

1) pay the money for a replacement battery at Nissan. The newer batteries have been shown to be better than the early ones so the lifetime of the battery should be better by quite a bit.

2) Get an 'extender pack'. There is a user named Mux here on MNL that is starting a business to sell these but I don't know if he will ship to HI or anywhere in the USA for that matter as he is in the EU.

3) An outfit called Fenix is a start-up trying to create a market where they lease batteries to end-users. Their first target market is the Leaf. They are still in the pre-beta stage though so it will be a while before that is an option.

4) You could possibly find a replacement battery from a wrecked Leaf and have it installed. There are lots of risks here (used parts, etc) and shipping and paying for someone to do the replacement may make this option less attractive.

The 2012 Leaf was a very early model and I'd say the later ones are much better. That goes across the board for any EV and specifically for Nissan. There are other options that are more expensive that also yield better results.

Finally, as far as I know, there are no manufacturers who have taken the approach of making the batteries easily replaceable as the technology improves. There may be practical reasons why this won't work but I'm sure much of it is just that it doesn't really pay for them to add this feature to the car. My go-to example for this is tractors. They are built to be worked on and you can still see 50 year old tractors in service and you can still buy replacement parts for them . I don't know if the newer tractors are as easily serviceable but once upon a time, they were made to last and made to be worked on. I don't know of any cars made to this model although EV's would probably gain the most from this approach since the battery technology is improving so quickly.

 

[duckgeek]

Modern tractor owners are currently fighting for the right to repair.

I’ve got a 2013 with 70k miles on it and we’re down 2 bars, so 62 miles or so of range. I can still get to work and back with 20 or so miles to spare. But I think this car is destined to be a high school car for my 15 year old. Limited speed and range can be a good thing, and there are currently already 3 Leafs in the lot.

Maybe now that Model 3 demand is softening Tesla will start targeting 1st generation Leaf owners with a trade up program. They could refurb them for less than than Nissan is currently willing to do and resell them in other markets.

 

[cwerdna]

Maybe now that Model 3 demand is softening Tesla will start targeting 1st generation Leaf owners with a trade up program. They could refurb them for less than than Nissan is currently willing to do and resell them in other markets.

They who? How would they "refurb" them?

 

[SageBrush]

I've been following this thread and its very discouraging.

I know it is a small consolation, but stories like yours are why I will not send money or business Nissan's way.
I am fortunate to have been able to buy a Tesla, and I hope it is in your future as well.

 

[garsh]

Maybe now that Model 3 demand is softening Tesla will start targeting 1st generation Leaf owners with a trade up program. They could refurb them for less than than Nissan is currently willing to do and resell them in other markets.

The only trade-up program that makes sense - for both Tesla and you - is for you to buy a Tesla.

Tesla isn't in the used car business and has no desire to do so. They offer only wholesale prices on trade-ins.

 

[cwerdna]

The only trade-up program that makes sense - for both Tesla and you - is for you to buy a Tesla.

Tesla isn't in the used car business and has no desire to do so.

Yep on the latter. Tesla has their hands full as it is trying to sell/lease their new cars and their used Tesla inventory.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/tesla-partnering-with-manheim-adesa-to-manage-used-cars.html suggests they're working w/companies like Manheim. (NMAC works w/Manheim: http://press.manheim.com/2010-07-27-Manheim-partners-with-nissan-motor-acceptance-corp-And-infiniti-financial-services-to-create-a-better-faster-way-to-turn-off-lease-inventory-into-sales and https://www.manheimconsignor.com/nissan/.)

Side note, I am surprised by this info on duckgeek at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9139

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:22 am
Last active: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm
Total posts: 1 | Search user’s posts

 

[LeftieBiker]

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

 

[cwerdna]

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

No. He joined in 2013 and made his 1st post 6 years later. Weird.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Ok, now I see it!

 

[SalisburySam]

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

I think the one post was 6 years after joining, to the day.

 

[HiloLeaf]

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

I think the one post was 6 years after joining, to the day.

I've been following and enjoying different threads for years. Never felt the urge to post until I lost my 5th bar last week. Apologies if thats weird.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

I think the one post was 6 years after joining, to the day.

I've been following and enjoying different threads for years. Never felt the urge to post until I lost my 5th bar last week. Apologies if thats weird.

It's not at all.

 

[SageBrush]

I've been following and enjoying different threads for years. Never felt the urge to post until I lost my 5th bar last week. Apologies if thats weird.

Not 'weird' at all.

 

[downeykp]

I'm in about the same situation you are. The first 4 years car was in the pacific NW. The last 4 years in Keaau on the big island. I have been at 7 bars for a few months now. But I only have 34000 miles. Our problem was buying in to all of the hype, (Nissan did really well with this). Some of us were hoping that Nissan would do the right thing.
They knew they would lose some future sales to people like us but being such a small part of their overall business they didn't care. I will have to give car away with the house, (if I ever sell it) because it is worth nothing. It does work for shopping trips of less than 30 miles to Hilo and back and it is basically free driving, (39 solar panels). I have only bought 1 set of wipers and 1 cabin filter in 8 years.
Good luck.

I see nothing at all odd about someone joining the site and making one post later that day.

I think the one post was 6 years after joining, to the day.

I've been following and enjoying different threads for years. Never felt the urge to post until I lost my 5th bar last week. Apologies if thats weird.

 

[LeftieBiker]

No apologies needed!

 

[duckgeek]

Maybe now that Model 3 demand is softening Tesla will start targeting 1st generation Leaf owners with a trade up program. They could refurb them for less than than Nissan is currently willing to do and resell them in other markets.

The only trade-up program that makes sense - for both Tesla and you - is for you to buy a Tesla.

Tesla isn't in the used car business and has no desire to do so. They offer only wholesale prices on trade-ins.

Uh, yeah. I think you missed the point I was trying to make. It would be a trade in program against new Tesla cars and they could offload the Leafs in a grey market that they don’t currently service. I would guess if they don’t do it someone wanting to buy EV mindshare might (like VW group). With 400k early adopters Leafs sold it’s a target rich environment for some smart marketer.

I read, but don’t post. What’s really to share? I changed my cabin air filter and put on one set of new tires in 6 years. Oh, and I got a new charge cable under warranty. I think those topics have been well covered here. My Leaf looks and drives like new other than range. Hopefully it will cover the 6 mile round trip to school for 6 years until my youngest graduates HS. Then it will be 12 years old and ready for recycling. Cheers!

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is indeed a market for someone to put new packs into old Leafs and resell them. Big names like Tesla aren't likely to do it, but maybe, if the Fenix Power battery succeeds, there will be a whole new sub-market of everyday people buying used leafs to re-new with new batteries that don't cost $9k.