Why I Love My LEAF, is the Majority Too Silent?

[camasleaf]

.... now, i am 18 months into ownership which is obviously a long way from 5 years but what i have really begun to realize is that the #1 failure of EVness is not Nissan, its the public charging station fiasco.
......
you can go back to "MY" posts from 18 months ago where i said that quick charging was over-rated and that i would use it rarely. i must eat those words. the other half is AV. they have installed now 11 of the 13 promised stations including 2 within 25 miles of me. the ability to gain a 30-40% charge in 10-12 minutes has GREATLY enhanced my LEAFs usability beyond my wildest dreams. .....

I was lucky to have in the area two quick chargers, more than a year ago when we got our LEAF. I quickly ( ) realized how important they are, and I remember the discussions about them. Even with the range dropping in half the LEAF will still meet the daily needs of my wife and with quick charging will still cover all the regional driving that we usually do.

We are now at 19000 miles (4.4 mpwh average), and did not notice any range degradation mainly because we do not have to worry about it. But just yesterday after 100% charge (that I do about once a week), I drove 7.9 miles on the top bar (half city/ half freeway) and 8.2 miles on the second bar on the freeway (speed around 55mph due to traffic). When the car was new, the top bar was giving us between 5-6 miles freeway driving.

So +1 to what Dave said.

I do not plan to buy another gasoline car ever again. But I would rent/(maybe buy) a gasoline/gas/propane range extender our few trips a year that are outside 1 or 2 QC charges each way.

We love our LEAF because:

- it does not stink even going uphill
- it is convenient not to have to go to the gas station
- it has virtually zero maintenance (I did all the maintenance on the other two cars for 188000 and 135000 miles)
- we have clean and cheap electricity here in NW
- the car drives very nice for a family car
- nobody has to go to war for my fuel
- it helps with the environment
- it helps reducing health cost since people do not breath in the stink
- I learned to drive a bit slower and a lot more relaxing. My blood pressure drooped and stays low even when I see people drive like I use to

My only complain is that I cannot give up on the ICE car and justify buying another EV for my 16 miles RT commute, the lack of range extenders and charging infrastructure.

 

[WetEV]

Love the Leaf. It is quiet, fun to drive, roomy. It is a car that perhaps will be boring and common in 2050, but we can drive it now. Leading edge technology. Like most innovative cars, it is likely to hold value better very long term.

The Leaf is also a hedge on the oil/gasoline market. While the best guess is that oil prices will stay near where they are today, the chance of a doubling of prices or even higher isn't zero. Peak oil will happen.

The Leaf allows me to cut back on CO2 release. This is more important to me than many people.

No smell of gasoline on my hands after fueling.

Did I mention fun to drive?

No trips to the gas station, and only a few trips to public charging stations. On the balance, I think I spend less of my time fueling that I would with a ICE.

Unlike some, I went into this knowing that battery life is a risk. This is the first mass market EV since the 1930's, the odds of learning something are high. And learning can hurt. But someone needs to be first, or nothing moves. Now in some ways, a BEV is a step to far, as a PHEV like the Plug in Prius or the Volt is currently a better match for current technologies and current economics, and even a gas hybrid is perhaps still even better. But things change, and may change faster than expected. Sometimes getting ahead of the curve is a very good thing. Sometimes it is not.

Ten years ago, there was an article in IEEE Spectrum (funded by GM and Texaco!) reaching the conclusion that a Prius wouldn't make economic sense unless the pump price of gasoline hit $0.94 per liter, which is $3.55 per gallon. I do argue that this article is not accounting for the full price of gasoline, which is much higher than the pump price as it doesn't include the cost of pollution, climate change and foreign wars. Last gasoline I bought for the Prius cost $3.65 per gallon at the pump.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/are-hybrid-vehicles-worth-it/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Twenty years from now, I'm going to love to quote from that article. And this one as well, which I found while searching for the above article:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/loser-why-the-chevy-volt-will-fizzle/0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe it is a typo, did they really mean sizzle? :lol:

Realistically, for the 96% of people that own ICE, a hybrid is a easier sell than a PHEV or a BEV. It doesn't require any changes to their habits, they just pay a bit more for the car and a lot less for gasoline. Technology is well proven, there are enough Prius cars with 300,000 miles or more and the original batteries to prove Toyota's claim that the batteries will usually last the life of the car. Not always of course, I've recently chatted with someone that needed to replace the batteries in a Prius. At something close to 250,000 miles. Most cars don't last that long.

A PHEV such as a Volt is an easier sell than a BEV. They can plug it in, but they don't have to. No changes in habits are required, but habits can change. It is an easier bridge than a BEV.

The reason to buy a BEV now is to start the technology change. To start the infrastructure change. To start changing the thought processes. To annoy the trolls.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

I am a very happy owner, my Leaf handles all of my in town daily commute needs. The main reason I bought was to contribute to market support for the new technology. Only if people buy EV's will the R&D continue. Sure, there is room for improvement, but EVs are commuter cars and fill a specific niche and they do it very well. PHEV's provide much more versatility and are likely to be the interim "solution" until better fuel cell or battery technology comes along.

If the Leaf resale values don't hold up, there are going to be some very happy people on the secondary market who are going to get really good value. Think about it, what a great deal a $15,000 used Leaf will be! There are so many leased Leafs that there is a possibility that at 36 months the used market will be flooded-- I may have to get a second one!

 

[ericsf]

Thanks Boomer23 for starting this thread and giving the hopefully delighted majority of LEAF owners a chance to voice how much they love this car. The fact is, people rarely talk about trains arriving on time. Who cares about reading that the 12:04am train arrived at 12:04am or that 98% of LEAF owners have no complain about their cars. I don't think it's wrong that most of the discussions are about problems. I wouldn't be reading MNL if was only about loving the LEAF and don't think it is bad for potential buyers. Loving a product is all about expectations. Nothing is (and can be) perfect but a new LEAF owner has a much higher chance of loving this car if they know what to expect from it.

That being said... I'm an engineer. Simplicity is the ultimate goal of engineering. And I can't think how a car design can get simpler than this. I love it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I like my car for all the above stated reasons. That's why I leased a second one. I won't, however, own one until I'm confident that we have stable technology in the LEAF.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Gee Tony; the fact that you have two of them kinda makes the statement obvious and yes I fully agree with the poster who stated that "goodness" is a boring read which is why the news is always sensationalized so ya we should be talking about the little bits that are not right be ause they seem to galvinize Nissan into changes each MY.

lets zee whT 2013 brings

 

[dandrewk]

I agree with the potential danger of scaring off prospective EV buyers. There was recent local coverage of the capacity issues in the Phoenix area. But I bet there has been NO coverage of the majority of AZ owners who haven't experienced issues and still LOVE the car. Bad news sells... if it bleeds, it leads. But the good side of the Leaf coin is FAR, FAR larger than the bad side.

For myself, I cannot add anymore than what has been said here. I am two months in, and I STILL get a rush when I drive the Leaf. It makes ANY destination more fun when the journey there is enjoyable. Heck, I don't mind trips to the Dentist because I "get to" drive the Leaf there.

 

[dgpcolorado]

While I am a relative newcomer at only eight months and 4300 miles, I put in my first solar panels four years ago as "Phase 1" of a future electric car. Now that I finally have the LEAF I am quite pleased. The biggest surprise for me was the acceleration up steep hills and how fun-to-drive the car is. My main concern is that the steep hills mean high kW numbers both for climbing and regen going down, which may mean more stress on the battery. That remains to be seen.

I am amused by the complaints about the lack of charge station infrastructure since the only L2 charge station within LEAF range of my house is the one in my garage. But I knew that I was stretching boundaries by trying to make a LEAF work in a rural mountainous location. Public charge stations don't exist here and there isn't much point in installing any with only one EV in the area. Since I have the only EV I try to let people experience it: I am up to 16 test drives and 7 rides thus far in my car, with standing offers for many more.

The LEAF handles snow and dirt roads pretty well. I haven't put snow tires on it because I have a Jeep for sloppy conditions. But the Jeep doesn't get much use since I don't have to go out every day and prefer to wait until the roads are clear.

I am still trying to figure out how to get to the nearest dealer in December for the first battery check since it is 93 miles and three high mountain passes away. I guess I will just carry my Honda EU2000i generator and have to be patient to get home. But that isn't something I have to deal with every day and I knew going into the purchase that taking the car in for service was going to be a nuisance. So I have been pleased that my car hasn't a single problem except for the connection to Carwings being a bit dodgy even in places with good cell reception (sometimes remote preheating/precooling works via Carwings, other times it just doesn't).

The winter range here was about 70-80 miles, which was enough to handle my 65-70 mile—with 2700 feet of elevation change—grocery shopping trips. I expect to be able to make it next winter also. Eventually I will need to plug-in to a 120V outlet down in town to be able to make it back up the hill but it isn't a big deal. The vast majority of my trips are much shorter—18 and 40 miles—and can be made without even an 80% charge. I mostly charge a few bars at a time, as needed, and only charge to 90-100% for the grocery runs.

I'd say the LEAF exceeded my expectations so I've been very pleased with it. Driving on "sunpower" sure beats using oil to get around and the knock on rural living is that it is so car-dependent, given the absence of public transportation. The LEAF makes that car dependency much less of an issue, which was why I wanted an EV in the first place. Pushing the envelope by making the city car work out here in the boondocks just makes it more fun!

"Dirt road LEAF"

"LEAF at Red Mountain Pass, 11,018 feet"

 

[Boomer23]

What a great story, dgp, so fun to read.

 

[sparky]

I purchased the LEAF about 18 mos and ~ 16k miles ago.
My LEAF has capacity loss comparable to Boomer's but I still make a regular 68 mi R/T LAX run, all freeway, plenty of juice remaining when I get home.

I love the LEAF for how it has taken on the role of family workhorse. Some of my kids are away at college but during the summer months we can have as many as 5 drivers in the house. The LEAF is by far the most popular vehicle for all the hardware store, grocery store, movies and trips to the gym that seem to occur with our household this time of year.
I love that, so far, there's ~$4k I haven't fed into a gas pump. Now that's a money pit.

I love that owning this car has changed my kids' perception of the possibility of driving without drilling. They love the acceleration, quiet and simplicity of the LEAF. They helped me install our rooftop solar and now they make the connection between sunlight on our roof and our electric transportation.

I love that my wife says she's glad I bought it and doesn't want to buy another gas-burner. She now drives it much more than I (should've seen that coming) and is probably the reason for our paltry 3.6 mi/kWh efficiency ( mwalsh, I throw myself on the mercy of the court ). Sure, I'm no hypermiler, but she does drive it like a slot car and uses the accelerator like an on-off switch. It guess it explains why we save so much on gas now; I think she was only getting 15 mpg before!

I love that the LEAF has increased my affection for EV performance even though that's not it's raison d'être. I will now actually consider the Tesla S or X even though it's the price of 2 LEAFs. EVs can be that much fun.
I like fun.

I bought the LEAF knowing a V1.0 car was going to have issues. I didn't expect the range to be close to 100 mi. We need only 35/day and I figured SoCal is an EV sweet spot as far as climate goes. We'll see if that holds, but so far the decline is within my expectations. A colleague of mine with a Tesla Roadster (53kWh pack) now declines trips of more than 120 mi due to range. Perhaps he's also seeing some degradation; don't know. It's all part of being an early adopter. Like Nissan, Tesla also over-promised driving range (244 mi IIRC).
These V1.0 problems (serious for the Phoenix folks), will become understood by the consumers and manufacturers for what I hope is the next wave of EVs in 2014.

I almost bought a Volt, but am glad I have the LEAF instead. The Chevy dealership markups were just part of what soured me.
I have no knock against the Volt, I'm not an EV purist.
I drove it several times and think it's a fine piece of tech. I really hope GM sells a million.

But, the LEAF won out on value and I think it still does for someone with my driving circumstances.

 

[lkkms2]

Hello dgpcolorado,

Sent your story to my brother in Gunnison, Co. A pioneer of pioneers.

 

[WetEV]

I love that my wife says she's glad I bought it and doesn't want to buy another gas-burner. She now drives it much more than I (should've seen that coming) and is probably the reason for our paltry 3.6 mi/kWh efficiency ( mwalsh, I throw myself on the mercy of the court ). Sure, I'm no hypermiler, but she does drive it like a slot car and uses the accelerator like an on-off switch. It guess it explains why we save so much on gas now; I think she was only getting 15 mpg before!

I think our wives must be related... I joke that when she broke her ankle years ago and they put a pin into it, the doctor messed up and put in a lead pin rather than a stainless steel one... :lol:

Over the past month, wall to wheels = 3.4 miles/kWh

But it is not just her. While I can hypermile, I often don't. Did I mention that the Leaf is fun to drive?

Slot car, eh? I like that. The next time someone compares the Leaf to a golf cart, I'll compare it to a slot car.

 

[JeremyW]

This is a great thread. Thanks boomer for starting it.

I'm just past a month and 1,300 mile in. I've been following the forum a lot longer, I think at this point probably a year or more. Like a lot of you, I love the car. But to me, this is more than just a car. For me, this is a lot more.

This was a career changer for me.

I haven't gone into much detail here on the forum, but I graduated with my electrical engineering degree last year, and I was mixed up in a lot of ways because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my degree. While I was quite good at radio communications and broadcast engineering (I've been a ham since I was 12, did an internship at a satellite tv company, and built a vacuum guitar amp from scratch), I found them to be boring and not very innovative. I wanted something that was exciting, new, and challenging. Somewhere in my researching renewable energy resources, I stumbled upon electric cars. I knew of the EV1, but like many people, thought them to be lacking the range and charging (refueling) speed to be too slow. I had also heard about better place and battery swapping, but I thought it to be impractical because you'd inherently need a lot more batteries than cars, and with the batteries being the most expensive part of the car...

But then I discovered the Leaf, and I found it had something that totally changed my attitude towards electric cars. That thing was rapid charging. It resonated with me very, very strongly. I suddenly knew that was the key, the one thing that could sling shot the electric vehicle into something everyone would embrace. I dove right in, researching the Nissan Leaf and other EV's to the point of (almost) obsession. I changed my mind about what my future car would be (it was the VW Golf TDI), and started to apply to power electronics jobs.

I eventually landed a support job at a power electronics testing company, learned what I could about CHAdeMO, and moved on to more of a grid side power engineering job. I'm now focusing on bringing the grid side and the car side together. There's a lot the electric car can offer to the grid as far as demand response, vehicle to grid, and just generally charging during the night when big thermal plants don't want to shut down (and would love to give you their power).

Anyway, this is more about me then it is about the car.... but let me bring it back... if I had learned about dropping capacity earlier, I don't think I would have has as much enthusiasm for the Leaf as I did when I first learned about it. I would have strongly considered a Volt. Now that I've gotten some stick time with an actual leaf, the biggest drawback (to me) is the weak on board charger. I think Nissan thought public chargers would be primary DC, and you'd only need AC for home charging where 8 hours wasn't a big deal. Sadly, the costs of the quick charger and demand fees have slowed that development considerably. As an engineer, it still amazes me we have the power electronics and the battery tech to do such rapid "fill ups".

But in conclusion I love this community, the meetups are awesome, and I really can't wait to see the future. It's going to be a lot of fun. :mrgreen:

Jeremy

 

[azdre]

And whistle blower lady, you have your own thread, please leave this one alone.

:lol:

 

[marccbr]

I love my LEAF and wouldn't wont any other car, except maybe a Ferrari but I can't afford that so I'll stick with the LEAF. The range is perfect for me and after a year I have not seen any drop in my range. As a matter of fact my m/KWH have increased probably do to the warmer weather. There car is quite, smooth and low maintenance. Never have to buy gas so I am saving about $250 per month. Its a no brainer buying this vehicle.

 

[Boomer23]

I love my LEAF and wouldn't wont any other car, except maybe a Ferrari but I can't afford that so I'll stick with the LEAF. The range is perfect for me and after a year I have not seen any drop in my range. As a matter of fact my m/KWH have increased probably do to the warmer weather. There car is quite, smooth and low maintenance. Never have to buy gas so I am saving about $250 per month. Its a no brainer buying this vehicle.

Cool, where do you live?

 

[TomT]

+1

Clearly the word is getting out as I've had a couple of people ask me how my battery is doing...

I'm still loving mine. Though I have to be honest that I can't be as a big a cheerleader for it, or Nissan, as I have been until we have a better idea of what's going on with the batteries.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

posted to FB this morning and the REAL reason why I LOVE my LEAF!!

End of July Report;

Prius drove 818 mile at a cost of $61.35 (less than half of May) which was a huge savings reflected by the huge drop in mileage, but our driving needs only changed slightly as evidenced by the LEAF which drove 1576 miles at a cost of $25.68 which also reflected a much higher use of the DCFC stations in the area (which are still free) Tumwater was used 10 times, Centrailia used 6 times and the Discovery Center used twice. Because it is Summer, we will continue the tren of using the LEAF much more than the Prius so expect more of the same for August!

to add to the post. our driving needs for July was 2394 miles. to compare June; 2377, May; 2423. total cost July; 87.03, june; 150.74, May; 156.38

 

[TomT]

And I thought *I* was anal and OCD... :lol:

posted to FB this morning and the REAL reason why I LOVE my LEAF!!

 

[OrientExpress]

This is the best car that I have ever owned!

Never (and I mean NEVER) have I owned a car that has been this trouble free, with no trips to the dealer in 17 months of ownership for warranty work, so economical, and such a pleasure to drive. I must also say, that I do not drive my LEAF with kid gloves, and it holds its own quite well.

Now granted there are a few owners out there that have not had the same experience as I have had, and like in a neonatal unit, those few are making the most noise. But if you temper their minority experience with the overwhelming satisfaction that the vast majority of LEAF owners have had with their cars, the LEAF continues to be the reference standard for 21st century EVs.

One final thought, remember this is a version 1.0 EV.
Just think how great it will be at version 3.0 and later. The analogy is remember how cool the iPhone 1.0 was? Now compare that to today's iPhone 4S (or on Sept 12th the next iPhone!)

In the technology world there will always be something newer, faster, cheaper, more featured, and cooler in the future. That is just how it works.