Winter tires and winter wheels

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Drivesolo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
409
Location
Pacific NW
I finally got around to getting a set of Michelin X-Ice XI2's from Tirerack for the winter. They were rated at the top of Consumer Reports Winter tire ratings and are rated 'very good' for rolling resistance. I figure I would give them a shot this year.
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I needed a set of wheels to have them mounted on, months ago when I found out the tire was a 205/55-16 I thought 'Hey, that's the same size that my old S14 ('96 Nissan 240SX) had on it's stockers.'. So I compared the dimensions of the wheels and sure enough they were exactly alike; 16"x6.5" wheel, 5x114.3 bolt pattern, +40mm offset, 66.5mm hub. A decent set of S14 wheels is easy to come by, locally I can always find a set, oddly enough this was the 3rd set of those wheels that I've purchased. I found a set that had been used as drift spares. They were clean, straight, held air, in good condition, no repairs or paint and were relatively free of blemishes and curbing. I've never paid more than $100 for a set of S14 stockers, I got these for $80 but the tires were essentially useless. It's surprising how these 2 wheels are separated by over 15 years yet Nissan uses the same exact dimensions today.
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I was surprised that the Leaf's OEM wheels are made by Enkei. They have their fair share of crap-tastic bling wheels, but from their motorsports selection, I've owned and used for several sets for racing and as far as a wheel that is both light and strong, they are well worth the price.
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For giggles and to test the fitment of the S14 wheels as well as to see if they were an issues w/ them I tossed them on the car w/ the old ratty spent tires still on them and drove around. The ground was a little wet and the tires essentially had no tread left but as long as I avoided any standing water I knew that I would be alright.
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Strictly on a performance level; the Bridgestone Ecopia absolutely blow. To call them crap would be insulting crap everywhere. Here was a set of tires that were beaten to death, cord showing, unevenly worn, left outside for what looked like months, were heat cycled to the point of where they were as hard as plastic and they still gripped better than the Ecopias.... on wet roads. I thought, "Well, maybe the Ecopia's strength is in it's low rolling resistance and the range benefit.".... more on that later. I got the tires mounted and put the Leaf's OEM wheels away. Weight-wise there seems to be about 5 lbs of difference (by estimation form picking each wheel up and judging them) between the S14 OEM wheel + the X-Ice vs the Leaf's OEM wheel + the Ecopia, where the winter tire package is lighter.

Today I did a 54 mile round trip in the early afternoon which I repeated the same exact route driving in nearly the same exact conditions this evening. For the afternoon trip which I did w/ the OEM equipment, I ended up w/ 17 miles on the Guess-O-Meter. In the evening after the same trip on the X-Ice's I came back w/ 19 miles. So much for the Ecopias being hugely fuel efficient. The main difference is that in the evening it was colder (32 degs according to the outside temp on the car vs low 40's in the afternoon) and it was at night so I was running my headlights in addition to using more heat.

The X-Ices are a little louder than the Ecopias, when you accelerate and/or brake hard they have a strange raspy sound that sounds almost like sand running down a slide, possibly from the siping for winter tires. They of course grip better than the OEMs in the cold and dry which is expected since at 32 degs I wouldn't expect any all season tire to be as good. So now there is the issue of the warning lights coming on indicating that I have low tire pressure. Since I did not use TPS's in the winter setup, I'll just live w/ it. I've done so on other cars so its no inconvenience for me once my mind maps to it. The Leaf is a 3200lbs car, the S14 is 2900lbs. My experience w/ Nissan wheels is that they are severely overly built for the car they are used on. I'm not concerned about the weight difference.
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Thanks Drivesolo, for the details on what you did. I feel the same way about the stock tires. They really do suck.

I don't need winter tires for the snow, but we get tons of rain here and I'm worried how well the stock tires will do on Hwy 17 twice a day during rainy season. I have mud/snow tires on my other vehicles.
 
How many miles do you have on the original tires?.. it looks like you have some edge wear but perhaps is just the picture. Please weight the new wheels before you shod them.
 
Herm said:
How many miles do you have on the original tires?.. it looks like you have some edge wear but perhaps is just the picture. Please weight the new wheels before you shod them.
3100 miles at the time I removed them. Edge wear? Hmm.... maybe my wife's driving. I think she's drives like a maniac at times times attempting to find the limits of the stock package. ;)
 
With the 422s, I think driving normally IS driving close to the limits of the tires! I am seriously considering changing them since they are one of the only two things that really do disappointment me about the car (the other is, of course, the steering)!

Drivesolo said:
Edge wear? Hmm.... maybe my wife's driving. I think she's drives like a maniac at times times attempting to find the limits of the stock package. ;)
 
Nice find on the S14 OEM wheels - $80 / set is great. The stock LEAF wheels are very heavy even though they're Enkeis - 21 lbs or so each.

Looks like the S14 wheels are about 18 lbs so a decent weight savings for the money - same hub bore diameter, too.

Tire rack lists the X-Ice tire as being 21lbs vs the OEM tires at 20lbs, so any overall change in weight should be just a couple pounds at most with your winter setup lighter.
 
Update on the Michelin X-ice XI's that I have on my Leaf. I've put about 250 miles on them and I've noticed that they have "worn-in". when I feel the texture of the tread blocks across the tread face the siping is slightly more pronounced. As a result it looks like range has dropped. I don't have any hard numbers but judging from my observations a 39 mile trip which normally took 7 bars now takes 8. I was also running more heat now so I'm sure that is a factor. When I first took the tires for the first drive the tread face was new and perfectly even. Now that they are worn-in I think its fair to say what the true effect on range is like. Still not bad. They still grip better than the OEM tires in the dry. Also, the release agent used in the manufacturing process is completely gone so that's not a factor at this point. I made sure the 2nd day that I had them on to adequately remove them in the most entertaining way possible.
 
Hi, Rick from Denver here.

I'm debating between the following winter rubber for my 2012 LEAF:

Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 ($147.00)
Michlein Pilot Alpin PA3 ($152.00)
Michlein X-ICE Xi2 ($125.00)
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 RFT ($157.00)
Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 ($123.00)
Goodyear UltraGrip Ice WRT ($115.00)

My next step is to check out the weight of each tire.

Any last minute thoughts or suggestions?
 
Please let us know what you chose and how they perform this winter. Will these be studded tires? I live at the base of Mt. Hood and am trying to figure out the best winter tires to get (studded vs. snow tires). I am concerned about stopping on ice without studs and not being able to make the 75 mile trip to Portland with studs.
 
ColumbiaRiverGorge said:
Please let us know what you chose and how they perform this winter. Will these be studded tires? I live at the base of Mt. Hood and am trying to figure out the best winter tires to get (studded vs. snow tires). I am concerned about stopping on ice without studs and not being able to make the 75 mile trip to Portland with studs.

I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 studded tires on my Leaf. They have excellent grip both on ice and in snow and have won most of the latest tests over here. They are load though, but that goes for any studded tire.

BTW; the Leafs traction control is very very good. No problems here going up inclines in several inches of snow.
 
I bought a set of Michelin X-Ice XI2 tires, mounted on some wheels obtained through the dealer that sold me the car (Wilsonville Nissan). Haven't had occasion to put them on the axles yet though.
 
Are the stock tires listed as "All Season?" Can one "get by" in the snow with the stock tires?

I've always purchased All-Season Radials, and would prefer to have them on the Leaf over an additional set of snow tires - if I can help it.

Many posters have made it exceedingly clear that the stock tires "SUCK," but I was hoping to at least get a year's use out of them and upgrade to a quality All-Season Tire when the time came to do so.

Is that possible on the Leaf, or are the roll-resistance characteristics going to prevent me from getting such a tire - forcing me into purchasing a set of snows?
 
AmpUpCO said:
Are the stock tires listed as "All Season?" Can one "get by" in the snow with the stock tires?

I've always purchased All-Season Radials, and would prefer to have them on the Leaf over an additional set of snow tires - if I can help it.

Why is americans so negative towards dedicated snow tires ? Extra rims don't cost much and the tire cost per mile doesn't increase (your summer tires will last longer when they are only used 6-8 months a year). Also you can rotate the wheels yourself for free when you swap them twice a year. The only tool really needed is a nice jack, which is really cheap. The swap job is one hour twice a year.

Advantages of dedicated snow tires:
- MUCH better traction than AS-tires in snow or on ice,
- Better traction in summer on summer tires than on AS-tires
- no need to pay for rotating

Disadvantages:
- Upfront cost of a second set of rims and tires
- Two hours a year to change wheels
- Have to store 4 wheels & a jack

The only thing that would make me not use winter tires is if I lived in a place that never got snow or ice. But then I would run summer tires all year, not all seasons (which is a mediocre choice, performing badly both in summer and winter compared to dedicated tires).
 
AmpUpCO said:
Are the stock tires listed as "All Season?" Can one "get by" in the snow with the stock tires?

I've always purchased All-Season Radials, and would prefer to have them on the Leaf over an additional set of snow tires - if I can help it.

Many posters have made it exceedingly clear that the stock tires "SUCK," but I was hoping to at least get a year's use out of them and upgrade to a quality All-Season Tire when the time came to do so.

Is that possible on the Leaf, or are the roll-resistance characteristics going to prevent me from getting such a tire - forcing me into purchasing a set of snows?

The stock tires perform on the low end of your average all season tire for snow traction. Tons of people are not forced to buy winter tires for other cars and you won’t be either. You can get by on the stock tires, but why would you?

Would you go to the beach without sunscreen? Would you get lawn mower gas in a milk jug? Would you go skiing in shorts and a t-shirt? Would you go racing without fastening your seatbelts? Would you drive in a rain storm on bald tires? These are all things that you can do, and get by on, but why? They all have better and safer options that don’t cost a ton of money.

If you aren’t motivated by your own well being, consider the impact to your fellow drivers. Drivers who will be waiting behind you when you’re slow to get traction cause your tires are spinning (spinning tires may get you going, but it only melts the snow which then refreezes into polished ice for everyone else). Drivers who are slowed down because your tires are slick at 30 when a good tire doesn’t get slick until 60. And I hope it doesn’t happen, but drivers who are on the other end of an accident because you couldn’t stop/turn in time.

I live on a hill and on the few days it snows, it is an endless stream of my neighbors who get stuck spinning their tires right in front of my house. Every single one of them has all weather tires. With my Blizzaks, I’m able to leave my driveway, stop to check on them, and continue up the hill with NO problems. If the car is not too heavy, I can even tow them up the hill. The difference in traction is night and day. Despite this real world proof, they still won’t get winter tires because it only snows now and then here in Seattle. I wish that they would start thinking that if it’s rare enough they don’t need to buy winter tires, then it is also rare enough that they should just stay home too.

To sum up – Yes, you can get by on the stock tires, but you really should use the right equipment for the job and get some snow tires.
 
A cheaper alternative to getting a set of 4 new tires for the Leaf is to get only 2. For most FWD vehicles there is only a little bit of a benefit to having snow tires on all 4 wheels vs only your front wheels. Braking distances are only slightly longer and as long as you are not pushing your luck when cornering, you should be fine there as well.
 
I have Nokian WR G2 which is All season performance tire but geared more for winter conditions. I really liked on a Saab. Great for Chicago snowy weather. I'll be selling the stock tires.
 
I'm probably going to get the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3. A very very highly rated tire to say the least. I like the fact that it only weighs 20lbs.
 
FairwoodRed said:
Every single one of them has all weather tires. With my Blizzaks, I’m able to leave my driveway, stop to check on them, and continue up the hill with NO problems. If the car is not too heavy, I can even tow them up the hill.

With the Leaf?.. that would be a great teaching moment :)
 
Thank you all for your honest input!

I live in Denver, Colorado. So for the safety of my family and my fellow drivers, I'll be purchasing a set of snows. Blizzaks are a #1 favorite on the forum. Any others? Price comparisons?

Last Q from the Penny-Pincher: I can simply use my existing rims, right? If I go to Discount Tire, they'll remove the standard tires and slap on the snows without issue, right?
 
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