LeftieBiker
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The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:42 pm

https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/10/toy ... rid-tease/

Thanks to the highly popular Prius, Toyota helped make the hybrid a viable alternative to gas-only vehicles. A few years ago, it added a plug-in version, the Prius Prime to compete with the likes of the Chevy Volt. Now it's adding that option to the number one selling SUV in the United States, the 2021 RAV4.

Ahead of the LA Auto Show, Toyota announced that the RAV4 would get the plug-in hybrid treatment. Like most automotive teases ahead of a major event, we don't know much about the upcoming vehicle. There's no word on price, range, battery size etc.
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jjeff
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:27 pm

If it's anything like Toyota's previous PHEV offerings it will fall-short of expectations :(
The Outlander PHEV SUV can do mid 20s EV only range, while the Chrysler PHEV mini-van can do 30+ miles, I'd hope the Rav4 would better those two but I really have my doubts.....Like the Prime it would sure be nice if it had the slightly more expensive heat pump heater, something neither of the two other models I mentioned do :(
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LeftieBiker
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:33 pm

My guess is that it will have the Prime's drivetrain squeezed in around the RAV-4's rear electric motor. Either that or it won't have an AWD option. I too hope for the heat pump and heated steering wheel, with a better driving experience and more cargo room. (Although my housemate has no intention of giving up her beloved old PIP.) AER will probably be a whopping 20 miles. ;-(
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HerdingElectrons
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:06 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:33 pm
My guess is that it will have the Prime's drivetrain squeezed in around the RAV-4's rear electric motor. Either that or it won't have an AWD option. I too hope for the heat pump and heated steering wheel, with a better driving experience and more cargo room. (Although my housemate has no intention of giving up her beloved old PIP.) AER will probably be a whopping 20 miles. ;-(
Considering the Prime's ICE is a 1.8L engine compared to the RAV-4/Camry/Avalon/Lexus NX200's ICE is 2.5L I highly doubt it.

More likely we will see a larger than the Prime's 8.8kWh pack to support the current draw of the heavier cars & performance expectations of those vehicle types because the electric motors are higher output & will require a larger pack.

Considering the the e-AWD is a small electric motor that operates in a very narrow low speed condition I don't see that being a big packaging obstacle relative to where the packs are located in the vehicles. Some loss of cargo space is more likely to occur IMO.

For funsies I'm gonna guess the pack size will be around 11-12kWh & the vehicles will have 20-25 miles of AER. Hopefully the heat pump will be standard considering the price point of the aforementioned vehicles.
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SageBrush
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:28 am

Toyota is all about iterative designs. Since the RAV PHEV is very likely going to be a RAV hybrid with plug-in shoehorned inside and not a new design starting from a battery skate I also expect a Prime in Rav clothing, albeit with a larger ICE than Prime's 1.8L. Perhaps 2.2L or 2.5L. Whatever the RAV hybrid has today.

PIP battery is 4.4 kWh
Prime battery is 8.8 kWh
I'll guess 13.2 kWh (4.4 *3) kWh for the PHEV

Toyota has up till now made ~ 63% of the nominal kWh capacity usable so if that continues it will work out to 13.2*0.63 = 8.18 kWh
At 350 Wh/mile EPA the vehicle will have 8.18/0.35 = 23.3 miles of combined range.

Will it sell well ? I think it depends on HOV access. The tax credit works out to ~ $6,000 if my battery assumptions are correct. PHEV really is a brilliant design** as implemented by Toyota, but it is in general not used as intended with daily charging. People buy them for the perks.

** The year I owned my Prius Prime I used it mostly for my 90 mile commute to work. I would add 6 kWh of electricity from the meter and I averaged just under 100 mpg as a 4 season average. It was quite amazing.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:43 pm

Considering the the e-AWD is a small electric motor that operates in a very narrow low speed condition I don't see that being a big packaging obstacle relative to where the packs are located in the vehicles. Some loss of cargo space is more likely to occur IMO.
The rear motor is the reason Toyota gave, IIRC, for not offering AWD on the Prime - no room for both the larger pack and the rear motor. Maybe the RAV-4 has more space back there. Given the info about available ICEs I think I agree with Sagebrush: the larger ICE in the otherwise Prime drivetrain. I'm not sure I agree about a larger pack; that will depend on available space. They may simply up the percentage of available capacity used to the same 80% as the Prius II and settle for 20 miles of AER.
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SageBrush
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:28 pm

^^ motor power/weight increases every generation so it is hard to guess what space constraints occur in a RAV. One thing I am reasonably sure of though -- PHEV buyers expect EV mode while they have usable battery capacity above that required for hybrid operation, and ace-ing the EPA test requires it too. The Prime motor as we know it is not powerful enough for the heavier RAV.

I was not clear -- when I said Prime in a RAV I was thinking of general drivetrain architecture and modular packs, not the exact same motor.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:22 pm

That was also what I meant, at least after learning that there is a larger ICE available.
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