rtz
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

2022 invoice prices

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:28 pm

Just want a base model. Those of you who have seen numbers; what's the lowest prices you've seen?

I haven't seen anything under the $26k range. Surely dealers get these cars for 22 or 24?

Snargleblarg
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:44 pm
Delivery Date: 28 May 2021

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:41 pm

MSRP on a 2022 Leaf S is $28,375 including destination. Nissan is offering $2000 cashback if you skip their financing deal. That's already near $26k without any dealer discount or tax incemtive. If you qualify for the full $7500 tax credit that brings the net price to $18,875. With the vehicle ongoing shortage I don't know if you can hope to negotiate a discount from your dealer. My local dealers combined have only 2 2021 Leafs and 2 2022 Leafs and none are base S models.
2021 Leaf S Plus, purchased May 2021

rtz
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:51 pm

Nissan is missing out on an opportunity to pump out atleast 100,000 new Leafs. Bet you $20 they are all home sleeping right now. 💤

cwerdna
Posts: 12261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:02 pm

rtz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:51 pm
Nissan is missing out on an opportunity to pump out atleast 100,000 new Leafs. Bet you $20 they are all home sleeping right now. 💤
They may not be able to. Google for smyrna production paused nissan 2021.

Chip shortage is hitting most/all automakers and Nissan may want to allocate production to more popular and easier to sell vehicles like Rogue. For example, https://tflcar.com/2021/06/nissan-exten ... tage-news/ was from June.

And, the more Leafs they sell in the US, the closer they get to hitting their 200K which would then start the tax credit phaseout clock, thus hurting delayed Ariya.

Until all Bolts got recalled and put on stop sale on 8/20/21, US Bolt sales were kicking the butt of Leaf sales. And, Tesla sales were decimating them.

The below should give some context, if you hadn't seen the numbers.
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releas ... 1-us-sales
https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevrol ... s-numbers/

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rtz
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:20 pm

All manufacturers need to look into simplification and using less chips, making chips in house, and seeking out new suppliers.

Take a general purpose computer cpu and make it do everything and stop putting 20+ black box computers all throughout the vehicle each doing a single task.

If anyone was building a race car; they would not build it in the same way these legacy OEMs keep insisting on and continuing to build them like they do.

The ice makers never even got around to moving up from 12v to something more desirable such as 16, 24, 36, 48 volts!

I'm surprised they ever moved on from 6V really.

cwerdna
Posts: 12261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:28 pm

rtz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:20 pm
All manufacturers need to look into simplification and using less chips, making chips in house, and seeking out new suppliers.

Take a general purpose computer cpu and make it do everything and stop putting 20+ black box computers all throughout the vehicle each doing a single task.
Do you realize how expensive it is to make chips in house and to build fabs? Automakers don't have that expertise and may not have the scale needed to even break even on chips from their own fabs.

So many companies like Nvidia, Apple are fabless. I found a list at https://www.eenewseurope.com/news/qualc ... mpany-list. (You'll find Mediatek stuff in numerous TVs and phones.)

Those general purpose computer CPUs may be WAY more expensive than the low cost and power chips you'd find in various modules in a car. And, they may be too high power consumption and not be able to operate properly in the long term in automotive environments (e.g. vibration, high temps (esp. if under the hood), huge temp swings, etc.) It's not like a PC that people might retire in like 5 to 7 years.

The automakers may not have a huge choice either as they depend on suppliers for their modules (e.g. Calsonic now swallowed up by https://www.marelli.com/key-product-areas/, http://www.tokai-rika.co.jp/en/products/, Continental, Bosch). Interestingly, TIL that Siemens VDO got sold to Continental awhile ago. The https://www.reuters.com/technology/rene ... 021-06-01/ didn't help things. Elon Musk called out Renesas & Bosch (e.g. https://www.yahoo.com/now/tesla-musk-ca ... 05637.html).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rtz
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 pm

Could they not take an iPhone and use it through the CANBUS to handle all the functions through software? Things need too change obviously as the old ways are not working any longer.

cwerdna
Posts: 12261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:45 pm

rtz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:39 pm
Could they not take an iPhone and use it through the CANBUS to handle all the functions through software? Things need too change obviously as the old ways are not working any longer.
Apple's not in the business of selling phones for that purpose. They introduce and discontinue phones at least once a year. They wouldn't be able to survive the required environmental extremes. I quickly found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liVDBKPVz2s while looking for something else. Also Google for automakers testing death valley.

They also have https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624. Heck, page 9 of https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/BCGA2548/5407731 that https://www.macrumors.com/2021/09/07/ma ... w-iphones/ refers to iPhone 12's that came out in 2020 as "legacy". You can find the models like A2172 at https://everyi.com/by-identifier/ipod-i ... ifier.html.

You still need chips for devices on the CAN bus....

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rtz
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:26 pm
Location: Oklahoma City

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:02 pm

Jack Richard used to joke that this device could run an oil refinery. I just find it hard to believe a general purpose cpu can't run a car using software vs's all the little cpus they currently use. That's how they did it in the 1980's.


http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=JLD404AH

cwerdna
Posts: 12261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2022 invoice prices

Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:11 am

rtz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:02 pm
Jack Richard used to joke that this device could run an oil refinery. I just find it hard to believe a general purpose cpu can't run a car using software vs's all the little cpus they currently use.
Sure but there still need to be chips on other devices on the CAN and other buses.

Between when engineering work has started to the time a vehicle has entered production of customer vehicles, 2 to 4 iPhone generations have come out. A generation typically lasts 3 to 6 model years from that point. What if there's a recall? Per https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallprocess.cfm:
Are there any limitations on my right to have a recalled vehicle remedied at no charge?

Yes. There is a limitation based on the age of the vehicle. In order to be eligible for a free remedy, the vehicle cannot be more than 10 years old on the date the defect or noncompliance is determined. Under the law, the age of the vehicle is calculated from the date of sale to the first purchaser. For example, if a defect is found in 2003 and a recall ordered, manufacturers are required to make the correction available at no charge only for vehicles purchased new in 1994 through 2003. However, consumers should realize that even though manufacturers are not obligated to remedy safety defects in older cars, a safety problem might still exist. If you receive notification of a defect on a vehicle older than 10 years, take the responsibility to have your car repaired at your own expense – and eliminate unnecessary safety risks.
The oldest iPhone Apple seems to actively sell (listed at the top of https://www.apple.com/iphone/) is the iPhone 11 that came out Sept 2019. The iPhone SE listed there is the 2nd gen that came out in 2020.

Maybe you might find this insightful:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... pply-chain (https://archive.is/vvhPq is an alternate if you get hit by a paywall.)

BTW, Apple doesn't make their own chips since they have no fabs. Their SoCs (e.g. A15, M1) are made by TSMC for them. TSMC makes chips for many other companies. See https://semiwiki.com/forum/index.php?th ... 021.13925/.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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