SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:48 am

powersurge wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:27 am
If you can find a charging station that is not being used, then use it.
Is the EVSE you have at home listed on plugshare, available for unrestricted use by all, anytime ?
Is it your view that EVERY private EVSE must be available to anybody, anytime ? Do you extend that view to all personal property ?

If not, you are just peddling in hypocrisy.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

johnlocke
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:45 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:40 am
" I neither condone nor advocate that people should buy a hack adapter."
Good

I could not care less why people buy hack adapters. My simple point is that it is unethical to use them at Tesla destination EVSEs because those installations were paid for by Tesla (and by extension, Tesla owners) for use by Tesla owners. Moreover, Tesla has taken steps to prevent the use of hack adapters. Those actions may be only partially successful but it should leave no doubt about Tesla intent for who uses the EVSE.

Notice in this sign that hack adapters are not invited.

Image
If we assume you are talking about Level 2 charging, then the chargers actually belong to the property owners. It doesn't matter whether Tesla provided the unit free of charge or not. You should ask the owner's permission first, but there's no reason not use the charger if the owner allows it. It's their electricity you're using.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:49 am

johnlocke wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:45 am
If we assume you are talking about Level 2 charging, then the chargers actually belong to the property owners. It doesn't matter whether Tesla provided the unit free of charge or not.
.
What makes you so sure ?
E.g., can the business take the provided equipment and put it on Ebay ?
Can the business take the equipment and decide not to use it at all ?
Can the business charge for the electricity ?

I'm just about positive that the business agrees to not charge for electricity so clearly Tesla binds the business to restrictions in return for free equipment (and often free money to cover installation costs.) Rather clearly, the business owner does NOT have free reign to do as they please.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:56 am

I sent an email to Tesla's destination charging dept asking
I am aware that 3rd party vendors of Tesla -> J1772 adapters are available for purchase.
What is Tesla's position regarding use of these adapters at destination chargers provided by Tesla to businesses ?
Tesla responded
Thank you for reaching out. Tesla does not support any 3rd party products that interface with our equipment and if something does not work properly, there’s nothing we can do from a service perspective to assist. Since some non-Tesla EVs to 20kW and the popularly-sold adapter cannot limit the current to 50A (which is its max), there’s a high likelihood that the adapter will melt if used it on a station outputting more than 50A, which is a high percentage of our locations with Wall Connectors, as our stations have an 80A output and most Destination Charging sites have multiple stations sharing 100A breakers.

Beyond this, it’s worth noting that the majority of our Destination Charging locations have some form of J1772 charging available alongside of our Wall Connectors that was provided by our program. These range from GE, Clipper Creek, and even some Tesla-branded J1772 stations. This has been a good faith offering that we’ve made with most host properties to allow them to serve all EVs, not just Tesla vehicles. The property at which these stations are installed are owned by the property and they also pay for the electricity. The stipulation of the program is that charging is to be free for paying customers of said business, though some properties are offering free charging to the public; it’s their choice to make. We recommend utilizing Plugshare to verify sites with J1772 available.

We have also started deploying Wall Connectors that are Tesla-only, meaning if the units do not ‘read’ a Tesla vehicle on the other end, it will not charge, and the adapter would be rendered useless.

If you do choose to visit a Destination Charging location, we strongly urge that you opt to use any available J1772 station(s) that we’ve provided and to leave the Tesla Wall Connectors available for Tesla drivers first and foremost. If the Wall Connectors there are on any breaker higher than 50A (which is the strong majority) and don’t happen to be Tesla-only, it’s likely that these adapters would melt and cause significant damage to the adapter, Wall Connector, and possibly even the vehicle.

Destination Charging Team
I take this answer to mean, amongst other things, that Tony's assertion that his hack adapter is "vetted" by Tesla is hogwash and is false advertising. My next step is to inform Tesla and the owner of this forum of his posts and advertising.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

webeleafowners
Posts: 886
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:36 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:56 am
I sent an email to Tesla's destination charging dept asking
I am aware that 3rd party vendors of Tesla -> J1772 adapters are available for purchase.
What is Tesla's position regarding use of these adapters at destination chargers provided by Tesla to businesses ?
Tesla responded
Thank you for reaching out. Tesla does not support any 3rd party products that interface with our equipment and if something does not work properly, there’s nothing we can do from a service perspective to assist. Since some non-Tesla EVs to 20kW and the popularly-sold adapter cannot limit the current to 50A (which is its max), there’s a high likelihood that the adapter will melt if used it on a station outputting more than 50A, which is a high percentage of our locations with Wall Connectors, as our stations have an 80A output and most Destination Charging sites have multiple stations sharing 100A breakers.

Beyond this, it’s worth noting that the majority of our Destination Charging locations have some form of J1772 charging available alongside of our Wall Connectors that was provided by our program. These range from GE, Clipper Creek, and even some Tesla-branded J1772 stations. This has been a good faith offering that we’ve made with most host properties to allow them to serve all EVs, not just Tesla vehicles. The property at which these stations are installed are owned by the property and they also pay for the electricity. The stipulation of the program is that charging is to be free for paying customers of said business, though some properties are offering free charging to the public; it’s their choice to make. We recommend utilizing Plugshare to verify sites with J1772 available.

We have also started deploying Wall Connectors that are Tesla-only, meaning if the units do not ‘read’ a Tesla vehicle on the other end, it will not charge, and the adapter would be rendered useless.

If you do choose to visit a Destination Charging location, we strongly urge that you opt to use any available J1772 station(s) that we’ve provided and to leave the Tesla Wall Connectors available for Tesla drivers first and foremost. If the Wall Connectors there are on any breaker higher than 50A (which is the strong majority) and don’t happen to be Tesla-only, it’s likely that these adapters would melt and cause significant damage to the adapter, Wall Connector, and possibly even the vehicle.

Destination Charging Team
I take this answer to mean, amongst other things, that Tony's assertion that his hack adapter is "vetted" by Tesla is hogwash and is false advertising. My next step is to inform Tesla and the owner of this forum of his posts and advertising.
I'm not sure I understand the technical explanation Tesla provided. Not an expert here but is there not some communication between the car and the EVSE on max current. Take our smart EV for example. One of our favorite wineries has a Tesla destination charger. He installed it and didn't know that not all EV's have the same charge port. So we visit him from time to time and stock up. Because it is over the halfway point on the battery we usually text him and check to see his station is up and running. (Always is.). Off we go and hook up. No problems with heat etc. Seems to work good.

Off topic, I believe he is replacing the destination charger with a pair of FLO chargers on the same circuit. He'll be able to provide service to two vehicles this way.

Image
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

WetEV
Posts: 3138
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:58 am

What is for Tesla cars is for Tesla cars.

Everything else we share. As long as the Tesla cars get more than their share.

I just love the privileged attitude.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

johnlocke
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:42 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:56 am
I sent an email to Tesla's destination charging dept asking
I am aware that 3rd party vendors of Tesla -> J1772 adapters are available for purchase.
What is Tesla's position regarding use of these adapters at destination chargers provided by Tesla to businesses ?
Tesla responded
Thank you for reaching out. Tesla does not support any 3rd party products that interface with our equipment and if something does not work properly, there’s nothing we can do from a service perspective to assist. Since some non-Tesla EVs to 20kW and the popularly-sold adapter cannot limit the current to 50A (which is its max), there’s a high likelihood that the adapter will melt if used it on a station outputting more than 50A, which is a high percentage of our locations with Wall Connectors, as our stations have an 80A output and most Destination Charging sites have multiple stations sharing 100A breakers.

Beyond this, it’s worth noting that the majority of our Destination Charging locations have some form of J1772 charging available alongside of our Wall Connectors that was provided by our program. These range from GE, Clipper Creek, and even some Tesla-branded J1772 stations. This has been a good faith offering that we’ve made with most host properties to allow them to serve all EVs, not just Tesla vehicles. The property at which these stations are installed are owned by the property and they also pay for the electricity. The stipulation of the program is that charging is to be free for paying customers of said business, though some properties are offering free charging to the public; it’s their choice to make. We recommend utilizing Plugshare to verify sites with J1772 available.

We have also started deploying Wall Connectors that are Tesla-only, meaning if the units do not ‘read’ a Tesla vehicle on the other end, it will not charge, and the adapter would be rendered useless.

If you do choose to visit a Destination Charging location, we strongly urge that you opt to use any available J1772 station(s) that we’ve provided and to leave the Tesla Wall Connectors available for Tesla drivers first and foremost. If the Wall Connectors there are on any breaker higher than 50A (which is the strong majority) and don’t happen to be Tesla-only, it’s likely that these adapters would melt and cause significant damage to the adapter, Wall Connector, and possibly even the vehicle.

Destination Charging Team
I take this answer to mean, amongst other things, that Tony's assertion that his hack adapter is "vetted" by Tesla is hogwash and is false advertising. My next step is to inform Tesla and the owner of this forum of his posts and advertising.
So Tesla says that their charging stations are capable of supplying more than 50 amps. Leafs are internally limited to 27.5 amps for the 7.2KW charger. They won't support 3rd party products with technical support or service problems. Tesla is now providing new installations with Tesla only chargers that won't service other brands. Tesla requires property owners to allow paying customers to charge for free.

What Tesla didn't say is that you couldn't use their chargers if you have another brand of car. It might not be safe in their opinion but they won't explicitly forbid it either. It would appear to be up to the property owner's discretion whether you could charge a car other than a Tesla there.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

Zythryn
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:10 pm

WetEV wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:58 am
What is for Tesla cars is for Tesla cars.

Everything else we share. As long as the Tesla cars get more than their share.

I just love the privileged attitude.
A private company provides hardware to another private company to service their mutual customers.
Somehow you think people that aren't customers should be able to charge using a third party adapter and you think THEY have a privileged attitude???
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

WetEV
Posts: 3138
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:36 pm

Zythryn wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:10 pm
WetEV wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:58 am
What is for Tesla cars is for Tesla cars.

Everything else we share. As long as the Tesla cars get more than their share.

I just love the privileged attitude.
A private company provides hardware to another private company to service their mutual customers.
Somehow you think people that aren't customers should be able to charge using a third party adapter and you think THEY have a privileged attitude???
Backwards.

If Tesla wants Tesla only charging stations, fine, then Tesla drivers need to use those stations, and not the limited public charging. Especially when they misuse the public charging, for parking spots and unplugging cars that are charging.

"What's mine is mine, what is yours we will share." Doesn't that attitude bother you?

Or think about this. You arrive late at night at a hotel in a non-Tesla electric, and there are two charging stations. A J1772 with a Tesla charging, and a Tesla only station that is vacant.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

Zythryn
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:49 am

Re: Tesla Charging Station Adapter?

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:03 pm

WetEV wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:36 pm
Zythryn wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:10 pm
WetEV wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:58 am
What is for Tesla cars is for Tesla cars.

Everything else we share. As long as the Tesla cars get more than their share.

I just love the privileged attitude.
A private company provides hardware to another private company to service their mutual customers.
Somehow you think people that aren't customers should be able to charge using a third party adapter and you think THEY have a privileged attitude???
Backwards.

If Tesla wants Tesla only charging stations, fine, then Tesla drivers need to use those stations, and not the limited public charging. Especially when they misuse the public charging, for parking spots and unplugging cars that are charging.

"What's mine is mine, what is yours we will share." Doesn't that attitude bother you?...
That attitude would bother me, if I saw anyone exhibiting it.
The analogy would be more accurate like this: “what’s mine is mine, what’s public property I can use.”


I do agree with you that it is very troubling to see anyone misusing charging spots. Try to separate that from the issue at hand though. Abuse of charging spots is in no way limited to Tesla owners.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
http://www.netzeromn.com

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