Volusiano
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:53 am

Valdemar wrote:
Volusiano wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Great that it is now official. However, I can't resist but say that one is likely going to be prudent by delaying the s/w update for the capacity gauge until 60 months or 60,000 miles.
I would assume that doing the sw update may be conditional to claiming the battery warranty, but maybe Nissan can clarify this point better.
Wouldn't it contradict this part?
If your vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge is already displaying eight (8) or fewer bars of capacity prior to the above referenced software update (and within the first 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first), your Nissan dealer will verify this condition and arrange for the repair or replacement of the lithium-ion battery in accordance with the terms of the warranty.
The way I interpret what there is a conditional event (for lack of a better word) going on here. And that conditional event is the introduction of the warranty for the 2011-2012 LEAFs, and part of this warranty introduction is the SW update, all happening here in June 2013.

So the way I read it is that if you already lost more than 3 bars before June 2013 (before the conditional event), they still would honor the warranty retroactively, because at the time you lost your 4th bar (or more), Nissan can't blame you for not having the sw update installed because it was not available at that time yet, until now.

But now that the sw update is available, as part of the conditional event in June 2013, they expect you to come in to do the sw update. If you don't come in and do the sw update now, but claim your warranty say a year from now, they will not honor it unless you do the sw update first.

Nissan didn't write that sentence to give you a loop hole to not do the sw update. On the contrary, Nissan wrote that sentence to close the loop hole. Why else would they have written it like that? The whole point is that the sw update will result in less warranty claim, because the capacity reading will be less pessimistic. So why would Nissan write a clause in there to allow users to not do the sw update so that their capacity reading remains pessimistic so that they can claim their warranty sooner? It just doesn't make any sense.

The only sensible interpretation of that clause is Nissan saying "We'll let those of you who rely on the pessimistic reading to claim your warranty get away with it because your capacity loss happened before we were able to tighten up the reading with the software update." It also implies to mean that "Now that we have a sw update to tighten up the capacity reading, everyone else who claims the warranty after June 2013 (the conditional event) will need to make their claim based on the tightened-up reading caused by the sw update." For sure I doubt that it means "Oh, but we'll give you a loop hole whereby you don't have to get a sw update to tighten up the reading, and we will also honor the warranty after June 2013 just the same if you're smart enough to use our loop hole to continue having the pessimistic reading so you can claim your warranty sooner."
Last edited by Volusiano on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:55 am

mwalsh wrote:Here is something that is bothering me - I am down to ~220 Gids on a charge. With the accepted threshold for bar loss being ~232 Gids, technically I should have lost a bar some time ago. Yet I still have all twelve. What is up with that?
First of all, I don't see where you believe that 232 Gids is the 'accepted' threshold for first bar loss. The % Gids is usually around 80-81%/225-227 Gids for first bar loss, not 83%/232 Gids. I've tested many cars and every one was around 80-81% Gids when they lost their first bar. Your car will lose one soon as yours is the first I've seen to be in the 70s % and still have all 12 CBs. So I'm going to call your car an Outlier.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:06 pm

Volusiano wrote: The only sensible interpretation of that clause is Nissan saying "We'll let those of you who rely on the pessimistic reading to claim your warranty get away with it because your capacity loss happened before we were able to tighten up the reading with the software update." It also implies to mean that "Now that we have a sw update to tighten up the capacity reading, everyone else who claims the warranty after June 2013 (the conditional event) will need to make their claim based on the tightened-up reading caused by the sw update." For sure I doubt that it means "Oh, but we'll give you a loop hole whereby you don't have to get a sw update to tighten up the reading, and we will also honor the warranty after June 2013 just the same if you're smart enough to use our loop hole to continue having the pessimistic reading so you can claim your warranty sooner."
exactly.
Nissan loves us, but not that much.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

User avatar
JPWhite
Gold Member
Posts: 1784
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
Contact: Website Yahoo Messenger AOL

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:42 pm

thankyouOB wrote:
you gain range back with the new software?
that is not how i read it. it reads to me that you get better, more accurate numbers on the dash and in the GOM, not that the car actually rolls farther before it goes LBW.

the software tweak is just PR not a real change in range. isnt that CORRECT?
Maybe. Maybe not.

If the s/w was squirreling away Ah due to faulty logic, this may come back with new software. I have observed my batteries Ah rating decline 4.5% in 4 weeks using Turbo3's battery app. I'm pretty confident that my battery did not degrade to this extent, conventional wisdom has Lion batteries gaining capacity as they warm, not decline. Something doesn't add up, and it maybe Nissan firmware.

We'll know for sure in a few months as s/w is updated and those armed with Turbo3's app will be able to compare Ah rating before/after the s/w update.

Right now its all conjecture, but we'll know for sure before long.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
2011 Blue SL-e, 132,400 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)
2018 Model 3 20,000 Miles.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:55 pm

I'm not sure there will be much difference in your AH reading because as our heat/ambient temps has increased my AH reading has gone down along with the CAP. When the temps were in the high 80's, low 90's, my readings were 63AH/95 CAP. Now, with temps in the high 100s, my AH is 61/92 CAP.
Also, right now the garage is 101F (108F outside) and my highest BS is 92F.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
DaveEV
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6237
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:01 pm

LEAFfan wrote:I'm not sure there will be much difference in your AH reading because as our heat/ambient temps has increased my AH reading has gone down along with the CAP. When the temps were in the high 80's, low 90's, my readings were 63AH/95 CAP. Now, with temps in the high 100s, my AH is 61/92 CAP.
Good point - no reason to believe that if your 2013 still loses Ah in the heat that the software update will affect the Ah readings much for the 2011-2012 cars after the update.
LEAFfan wrote:Also, right now the garage is 101F (108F outside) and my highest BS is 92F.
Stayin' "cool". How'd you manage that? Let it cool off outside overnight?

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10642
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:45 pm

Yep, nowhere is there any indication that there will be any change in the actual range available... It just supposedly makes the capacity bar meter more accurate in depicting the battery degradation... It will be interesting to see how many people "gain a bar back" after update but experience no actual difference in range...
thankyouOB wrote:you gain range back with the new software?
the software tweak is just PR not a real change in range. isnt that CORRECT?
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:06 pm

drees wrote:
LEAFfan wrote:I'm not sure there will be much difference in your AH reading because as our heat/ambient temps has increased my AH reading has gone down along with the CAP. When the temps were in the high 80's, low 90's, my readings were 63AH/95 CAP. Now, with temps in the high 100s, my AH is 61/92 CAP.
Good point - no reason to believe that if your 2013 still loses Ah in the heat that the software update will affect the Ah readings much for the 2011-2012 cars after the update.
LEAFfan wrote:Also, right now the garage is 101F (108F outside) and my highest BS is 92F.
Stayin' "cool". How'd you manage that? Let it cool off outside overnight?
I like your theory about the lower resistance/chemistry tweaking keeping it cooler because at the end of the day, the garage is around 104-106F, but by 5AM it's down to 88-90F and my highest TS is around 90F at that time. If my wife didn't have an ICE, the garage would cool down faster at night, but that hot engine really adds the heat. Maybe insulating the garage door and above the garage (attic) is helping too. When our hot water heater needs replaced (10 yrs. old...I just replaced the anode), we're going to buy a heat-pump one.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

User avatar
planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:31 pm

thankyouOB wrote:you gain range back with the new software?
that is not how i read it. it reads to me that you get better, more accurate numbers on the dash and in the GOM, not that the car actually rolls farther before it goes LBW.
Whoa there! You are reading a lot into the statement that I don't see. The only difference in the display that I see mentioned is to the capacity gauge. Not to the 12 available charge bars, not to the GOM, or to any other numbers displayable on the dash. I will agree that it seems unlikely (though not impossible) that you will gain range back. My expectation is that they are only changing the algorithm in the part of the dash display software that calculates capacity gauge segments. Until proven otherwise, I'm willing to take their word that they are making it more accurate.

While I'm at it, I'm going to go out on a limb and give my theory on that table vijayl pointed to. I think that is what Nissan wanted the capacity bars to show, but they yanked the table from the Service Manual when it became obvious to them that the display wasn't really working that way. Now that they have hopefully fixed the algorithm, they may be willing to make that table official again, or they may make some very slight adjustments to it before doing so.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

BBrockman
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:44 am
Delivery Date: 21 Oct 2013
Location: Franklin, TN
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 L

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:12 am

Psyclonus wrote:Does "greater compatibility with an expanded range of EV charging equipment" mean that it'll be safe to use the power button on my GE Wattstation following the update? For those of us who are already aware of the potential issue, not being vague about the change would be very helpful. :)
Psy: Yes. I'm told your GE Wattstation issue is addressed by the OBC software update.

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”