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planet4ever
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Re: First report I've seen out of Yokohama

Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:40 pm

mwalsh wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
garygid wrote:Where is your reference getting 70 miles at 55?
The picture above shows 78km at 81km/h (49 miles at 50 mph), right?

The 65 mph range, with some hills, might be ??? ...
significantly less than 49 miles?
isnt that with "heavy stop and go on freeway?"
No, we're talking about the bottom right hand quadrant of that chart shown in the picture. It shows 50mph on the equivalent of an "A" road in the UK - a two or three lane highway with slowing for (and acceleration from) roundabouts (traffic circles) used for traffic management.
First, I was very confused (probably due to merged threads) until I found "the picture". It is here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=47

We don't have roundabouts in my part of the world, but when did I ever let ignorance keep me from opening my mouth?

I think this is supposed to represent a worst case, so let's add some worst case conditions:
1) Traffic is heavy enough that you have to stop, or nearly stop, merging into each roundabout.
2) You encounter a roundabout once every kilometer.

Now, remember, the average speed is 81kph so you will hit 81 roundabouts/hour. You are going to lose 10-20 seconds for each of them, so you lose 13-27 minutes per hour. Let's call it 20 minutes. If you lose a third of your time in roundabouts you are going to have to make it up by driving 3/2 times as fast as your average, or about 120kph, whenever you can.

So, worst case: That 47 mile range happens if you drive 75 MPH with lots of stop and go and the AC on. (Yes, Gary, it's 47, not 49, because the picture shows 76km, not 78.)

The court decides in favor of Dave.
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Nubo
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:11 am

mwalsh wrote:
Image

Edit: Does anyone want to guess how fast the car is going based on the motor using 30-35kw of energy? I'm going to go out on a limb and say ~40mph.
Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.

That is not an actual in-use picture unless the car was undergoing some momentary heavy acceleration. and 6kW for climate control? Holy crap! I think it's just someone's PowerPoint only meant to illustrate the single point "how to extend driving range by managing use of AC/heater"
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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mwalsh
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:20 am

Nubo wrote:Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.
The car's maximum speed is supposedly 90 mph. Presumably, at that speed, the motor would be consuming pretty close to the maximum amount of power available to it (~80kw). This is why I assumed a cruising speed of ~40 mph.
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evnow
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:31 am

Nubo wrote:That is not an actual in-use picture unless the car was undergoing some momentary heavy acceleration. and 6kW for climate control? Holy crap! I think it's just someone's PowerPoint only meant to illustrate the single point "how to extend driving range by managing use of AC/heater"
I think either the picture is when they just started AC and are heavily accelerating or more likely a made up micture (i.e. a simulation test picture).
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Nubo
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:42 am

mwalsh wrote:
Nubo wrote:Something doesn't add up in that picture. If the motor is drawing 35kW, the 24kWH battery would be depleted in less than 45 minutes, Add the apparent 7kW for climate control and "other", and you've got about a 1/2 hour. And yet it claims 120km of range. So, the car is travelling 160 miles per hour.
The car's maximum speed is supposedly 90 mph. Presumably, at that speed, the motor would be consuming pretty close to the maximum amount of power available to it (~80kw). This is why I assumed a cruising speed of ~40 mph.
Understood. What I'm trying to say is I wouldn't try to gain any insights from the details of that slide. It's only intended to show that there is a feature to show you the range impact of climate control as you drive.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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evnow
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:54 am

Image

The EUR & US ranges for similar conditions lineup quite closely. Only difference is in highway scenarios 8 & 9. For some reason the roundabouts reduce the range quite a bit in Europe - I'd say for usual highway travel in the US range of 70 will be typical - atleast in eco mode.
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DeaneG
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:57 am

Interesting that we have no 65-70mph numbers. That's my commute.
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Bicster
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:03 pm

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evnow
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:12 pm

DeaneG wrote:Interesting that we have no 65-70mph numbers. That's my commute.
You need to slow down :twisted:

Actually, they are talking about avg 55 mph. I guess even 65-70 freeway dashes end up with an avg of 55 mph once you consider typical distance to the freeway both at home & destination.

I suggest you log the actual avg mph on a few days ...
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garygid
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Re: Preliminary RANGE results

Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:13 pm

The max speed of 90 will be a motor RPM limitation, not a power limitation.

At 90 mph on level ground only a modest fraction of the max power will be required.

The max power limits two things, acceleration and hill-climbing.
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