LeftieBiker
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 pm

So when the GOM starts flashing there is a 10-30 mile effective reserve, depending on how much power the car is drawing (excluding full throttle and maximum heat) for those miles?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9740
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:08 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:16 pm
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30267

I have also seen north of 5kW left when gauge hits 1%. VLB happens miles after the gauge hits 1% and range flashes.
Do you mean 5 kWh?

Regardless, I already stated what my thoughts are on "kWh" reported by Leaf Spy at viewtopic.php?p=567385#p567385.

Here are two things Turbo3 (Leaf Spy author) has written about the kWh calculation and how much energy each gid has:
viewtopic.php?p=394038#p394038
viewtopic.php?p=521838#p521838
webeleafowners wrote: Any idea on the reserve?
I think a problem here with the discussion is that there isn't a commonly agreed upon definition of "reserve" for the Leaf. What does this mean?

I can think of many definitions which might not match what Sage, webeleafowners or DougWantsALeaf have in mind nor what most people here might (?) think.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:48 pm

You guys are a hoot. Now that the meaning of "reserve" has become personal preference, Lefty tries to muddy the waters further with "effective reserve."
WELL DONE ! ... if the goal is gibberish. Throw in some kW for extra points.

Try this: The LEAF does not purposely misrepresent the battery SoC to the driver. There is no intentional positive or negative bias in the SoC display. The SoC meter however can be wrong and often is. Perhaps up to 2.5% in either direction.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13265
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:14 am

Has an ePlus driver yet run out of charge while the GOM was displaying a range? You know, as happens to Tesla drivers occasionally? No? Then "effective reserve" it is.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:20 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:14 am
Has an ePlus driver yet run out of charge while the GOM was displaying a range? You know, as happens to Tesla drivers occasionally? No? Then "effective reserve" it is.
.
Hmmm

Say 10,000 e+ on the road, so perhaps 5,000 Leaf*month
1% post to MNL ?
.. 50 LEAF*month

5% foolish enough to drive down to way below 5% SoC ?
.. 2.5 LEAF*month

Your conclusion rests on wet toilet paper.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13265
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:29 am

At our age(s), I think we should always post as if our latest words may be our last. Do you want yours to be "wet toilet paper"...? My beloved adopted feline daughter calls, so I'm done.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:15 pm
Hey has anyone with an Eplus run their battery down under 10 percent.

What happens on the display? Does it still display in percent or range.

Any idea on the reserve?

Just a curiousity thing. Not counting on running it down that far. (But ya never know :) ).

Oh. One more thing. Our 2016 still has a CD player. I’m assuming that’s gone. (We have had the same James Taylor CD in ours for 3 years so it won’t be missed).

Thanks all.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30267#p566697

I carefully ran my new car completely dead to get a baseline on actual range and battery storage capacity. I posted results in the thread !inked above. The SL+ was different than my previous LEAFs in that the Low Battery Warning came in with much more energy left and there was no audible or visual Very Low Battery Warning. The distance to empty (DTE or GOM) did change to flashing numbers at LBW and then to flashing --- a little later (i consider that VLBW even though there was no other audible or visual warning).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

SageBrush
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Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:01 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 am
I carefully ran my new car completely dead to get a baseline on actual range and battery storage capacity. I posted results in the thread !inked above. The SL+ was different than my previous LEAFs in that the Low Battery Warning came in with much more energy left and there was no audible or visual Very Low Battery Warning. The distance to empty (DTE or GOM) did change to flashing numbers at LBW and then to flashing --- a little later (i consider that VLBW even though there was no other audible or visual warning).
That was an informative post -- thanks.
Is your LeafSpy set at the default Wh/Gid ?

This forum has a fantastic thread called "What is a Gid" started back in 2012 that has an excellent discussion about measuring usable battery capacity and associated pitfalls.
viewtopic.php?t=7828
One important message is to not trust the SoC or Gid values at the bottom of the battery, anecdotes notwithstanding.

Choice quotes from Phil, aka Engineer the LEAF hacker extra-ordinaire (now in Tesla land) and Gary Giddings of Gid reknown:
The Battery ECU computes SOC and Watt-hours remaining by 2 methods; One is by coulomb counting with a hall-effect ammeter, and the other is by watching open-circuit voltage of the pack and performing a complex calculation based on multiple inputs. Because the coulomb counting method has some drift due to the hall-effect system, Periodically the battery ECU will dynamically adjust these figures to keep them accurate. This is why the apparent charge drops a little faster initially sometimes.
Scaling these "Gids" by 80 (or 100/281) does not change the base data, which still gets "used up" faster at the top end, and occasionally appears to be "not really available" at the low end.

You can scale 281 (by 80) to 22480 Wh (or by 0.08 to get 22.5 kWh) if you find it helpful, however the top "kWh" will still disappear faster, and the bottom couple of "kWh" might occasionally be just "wishful thinking".

So, however you like it scaled, please use this "Gid" value ... cautiously.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:02 am

Ok, so I just wasted nearly 2 mins scrolling the last two pages dedicated to defining "reserve?"

Reserve was defined DECADES ago by gassers and its simply the distance one can drive when the gauge is at ZERO. It is that simple.

Someone with an agenda has decided it is ok to denigrate Nissan's metering as faulted due to the presence of this reserve while driving a car that has the potential to and has done so several times; leave him stranded with a gauge saying he can continue to drive.

Now I have read people who bragged about the accuracy of their gauge claiming when it was zero, there was nothing left in the tank. Not hard to figure out how they came to that conclusion but I have never owned such a beast.

I took my Prius well over 50 miles past DTE (Distance to Empty) more than once and negating the days when I opted to eat over buying gas, I have never run out of gas.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:07 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:15 pm
Hey has anyone with an Eplus run their battery down under 10 percent.

What happens on the display? Does it still display in percent or range.

Any idea on the reserve?

Just a curiousity thing. Not counting on running it down that far. (But ya never know :) ).

Oh. One more thing. Our 2016 still has a CD player. I’m assuming that’s gone. (We have had the same James Taylor CD in ours for 3 years so it won’t be missed).

Thanks all.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30267#p566697

I carefully ran my new car completely dead to get a baseline on actual range and battery storage capacity. I posted results in the thread !inked above. The SL+ was different than my previous LEAFs in that the Low Battery Warning came in with much more energy left and there was no audible or visual Very Low Battery Warning. The distance to empty (DTE or GOM) did change to flashing numbers at LBW and then to flashing --- a little later (i consider that VLBW even though there was no other audible or visual warning).
I am guessing you still get the "_ _ _" on the SOC meter as well? Did you notice what GID level that happened at?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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