fasteddie911
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:04 am

I too am considering a leaf and will use it for short range work too, 15mi/day or so. Battery degradation is a concern of mine, but the battery warranty of 8yrs for ~100mi of range or so is still pretty good capacity for me and may be a non-issue. Tack a few more years to make it to 10yrs and say it goes to 50% capacity, but even then that's do-able for me and I could still go a few days b/w charges. I'm not sure what I'm going to choose, but battery degradation issues haven't ruled it out a leaf for me yet.

Btw, maybe you know this, but talking to my uncle who owns a leaf on Oahu, there's a rebate going on now with the local electric company.

Lemaign
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2019

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:18 pm

fasteddie911 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:04 am
I too am considering a leaf and will use it for short range work too, 15mi/day or so. Battery degradation is a concern of mine, but the battery warranty of 8yrs for ~100mi of range or so is still pretty good capacity for me and may be a non-issue. Tack a few more years to make it to 10yrs and say it goes to 50% capacity, but even then that's do-able for me and I could still go a few days b/w charges. I'm not sure what I'm going to choose, but battery degradation issues haven't ruled it out a leaf for me yet.

Btw, maybe you know this, but talking to my uncle who owns a leaf on Oahu, there's a rebate going on now with the local electric company.
You're in a similar situation as we are, I'd say! And yes, the dealership had given us the heads-up on the rebate through the electric company, which was nice.

We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us. I'd certainly rather have it than not, but looking at the cost difference between the Leaf and cars like the Bolt or Model 3, for my wife's purposes it's probably not worth it. The eight-year warranty on the battery is also a major reassurance; I have no doubt that Nissan would try to screw us out of it if we needed it, but it's still there. (I do think it's a bit sleazy that they have you do annual "battery checkups" and charge "around $100" (or so they told us) for the test, which is a requirement to keep that battery warranty... but I guess they're looking to continue monetizing the car in some form. On the bright side, the first two checkups are free...)

Ultimately, what it also came down to was the fact that here in Hawaii the older model Leaf is still the most-seen BEV on the roads. Sure, I don't know exactly how old those cars are, whether they're on their second or third battery packs, or whether they're near-useless, but the fact that they're out and about in full force is reassuring for this climate. I've also seen a good number of the new Leafs on the road. Hawaii is a small place; if the original Leafs were performing horribly out here and/or if Nissan were bilking people badly then I don't think there would be so many. Tesla has a strong presence here, as well, and there are now some days when the Model 3 is my most-sighted BEV... which is saying something, considering that most days I easily see more than five BEVs (and I've even seen two in a row on multiple occasions; I think I've only seen three BEVs in a row once). But for the Leaf to have such a strong showing must mean that it's working well enough for most people.

Time will tell on the battery, but driving it home, I was very pleased. I've gone through quite a few cars (including rentals) and the Toyota Prius (gen 3) has been my absolute favorite for handling, utility, dimensions, and overall comfort. As I wrote before, if Toyota made an all-electric Prius I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but they don't have an all-electric anything and so here we are. Based on the specification sheets the Leaf is the closest BEV you can get to a Prius, and in driving it I felt almost as if it were handling like my Prius. It had more pep, as one might expect. (I keep my Prius largely locked in "Eco" mode, and put the Leaf into Eco mode as well - no doubt the Leaf would feel like some turbo vehicle to me if I took Eco off.) We'll see how it handles under more road conditions but for Prius lovers living in fair climates who won't be doing tons of heavy driving, I think the Leaf is the ideal BEV to jump to for now. The Bolt seems to be the closest to the Prius after that, but I didn't even check one out in person. I'm seeing more and more of them here in Hawaii, though, so no doubt they're popular as well...

Thanks all for your advice! Now I have a lot of reading to do, and will probably be posting more questions in the near future.

cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:29 pm

Will be interesting to hear how it holds up. Please get back to us after it's passed thru at least 2 summers.

It's not easy for me to find some of the legit Hawaii capacity loss posts and I need to hit the sack soon, but here's one with the lousy pre-4/2013 chemistry: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508537#p508537. That 1/2013 built car was a 3 bar loser by the time he got it in Oct 2017 and it lost its 4th bar while he was still under capacity warranty.

Here's another: viewtopic.php?t=28478 - Hawaii lizard pack Leaf (best one we know of so far), down 2 bars by April 2019.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:40 pm

We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us.
Hawaii seems to be one of the worse (but not worst) places to drive a Leaf, degradation-wise, because of the warm nights. You don't need to see extremely hot daytime temperatures to get heat degradation, if the pack can't cool down much at night. I suggest that you try to avoid fast-charging (and drag racing!) and try to charge when the pack is below the middle of the range on the "gauge" - or at worst to avoid charging when it's at or beyond the 2/3 area on the very vague temp gauge. Most people don't air-condition their garages, but I do during heat waves, at night, so my car's pack can cool down.
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Lemaign
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2019

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:53 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:40 pm
We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us.
Hawaii seems to be one of the worse (but not worst) places to drive a Leaf, degradation-wise, because of the warm nights. You don't need to see extremely hot daytime temperatures to get heat degradation, if the pack can't cool down much at night. I suggest that you try to avoid fast-charging (and drag racing!) and try to charge when the pack is below the middle of the range on the "gauge" - or at worse to avoid charging when it's at or beyond the 2/3 area on the very vague temp gauge. Most people don't air-condition their garages, but I do during heat waves, at night, so my car's pack can cool down.
Appreciate the advice. We're extremely conservative drivers and plan to keep the car locked on "eco" mode, using only trickle charging, and keeping the battery between 20-80% charge. We'll see how it goes. Right now we park it in an area where it gets a lot of wind, but you raise a good point about being able to cool over time (and while charging). We'll do what we can to make sure it can do so.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14223
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Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 am

With your driving needs; I would get the standard. It will take YEARS of degradation before it becomes an issue to you. I think the biggest challenge for anyone in the market right now is how long will you want to keep your car. It was easy 20 years ago to say I will keep it 15 years but landscape is changing too fast for me to comfortably make that statement any more. I am now looking at a 5-7 year cycle for me and I think 7 years is unlikely.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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fasteddie911
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:49 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:11 am
With your driving needs; I would get the standard. It will take YEARS of degradation before it becomes an issue to you. I think the biggest challenge for anyone in the market right now is how long will you want to keep your car. It was easy 20 years ago to say I will keep it 15 years but landscape is changing too fast for me to comfortably make that statement any more. I am now looking at a 5-7 year cycle for me and I think 7 years is unlikely.
That's where I'm at now. Like the OP, I am looking at a Leaf for relatively low usage, a new or lightly used Leaf could last me over a decade easily (based on mileage) and I'd hope to keep it that long. While a new one would be nice, for that long a timeline I do wonder how it'll hold up and how EV tech will develop, including Nissan's. Add to that the steep depreciation, selling/trading in a few years would be a wasteful, and the bargains I could get on a used model now(including maybe waiting for used 2018's to hit the market) is hard to ignore.

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:35 am

I do find it interesting that on the U.K. Nissan site that while at 45 mph range is listed at 240 miles, at 65 mph, range is only 157 miles per Nissan. Now I have certainly beat that, but am surprised at how conservative a number they have listed.
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danrjones
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Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:07 pm

I mentioned in another thread a finally, first time ever, charged to 100% the other night. the GOM gave me a reading of 162, then when I turned the Ac on it dropped to 154 or similar. This is probably pretty close to reality - with my driving. City driving, stop and go, 45 mph max.

When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.

According to the myleaf app for Sept I'm averaging right about 4 miles per kWHr. I imagine that will go up slightly as I use less AC.

For those who do a lot of freeway driving I can see that number dropping into the upper 3.X range.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:09 pm

When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.
You might manage it at just 70MPH, with A/C set to 75F and tire pressures at 42-44psi.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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