rborba
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 4814
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:08 pm

Tony: My plan is to go around a 6 Km loop in my neighborhood, covering speeds between 40 and 70 Km/h. It's not really flat but the altitude variation is only 28 m (checked with a GPS while jogging a couple of years ago).

What do you want in terms of climate control use for the baseline? Minimal? Typical? None?

Ricardo
2011 Nissan LEAF SL + QC, Black
Hand raised: Aug 11, 2010 -- Test driven: May 25, 2011
Reserved: Aug 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT -- Ordered: Sep 16, 2011
Delivered: Sep 23, 2011 (first LEAF in Canada)
EVSE: AeroVironment J1772 (240V/30A)

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:34 pm

rborba wrote:

I should be able to run the experiment tomorrow morning at -15C. Wish me luck. :)

Ricardo
Good luck!

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:38 pm

rborba wrote:Tony: My plan is to go around a 6 Km loop in my neighborhood, covering speeds between 40 and 70 Km/h. It's not really flat but the altitude variation is only 28 m (checked with a GPS while jogging a couple of years ago).

What do you want in terms of climate control use for the baseline? Minimal? Typical? None?

Ricardo
28m doesn't even register on the scale of elevation changes that are more typical in western states/provinces. I'd prefer no heater, but I understand how an hour or two in a -15C car might not be fun.

Just use what you have to, because it should be reflected in the km/kWh readout.

Thanks for accepting the challenge! Maybe you should print out the first post to log the data?

rborba
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 4814
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:53 pm

TonyWilliams wrote: 28m doesn't even register on the scale of elevation changes that are more typical in western states/provinces. I'd prefer no heater, but I understand how an hour or two in a -15C car might not be fun.

Just use what you have to, because it should be reflected in the km/kWh readout.

Thanks for accepting the challenge! Maybe you should print out the first post to log the data?
Hey Tony. Here are the results.

120V to 100% Charge at start: --:--
Assumed battery temperature at start: -13C (soaked for 4 hours)
Final Dash Km/kWh: 7.0
Km traveled total: 125.1

Km driven at Low Battery: 15.8 Km
How many fuel bars showing: 1
120V to 100% Charge: 21:00
Temp: -10 C

Km driven at Very Low Battery: 4.4 Km
How many fuel bars showing: 0
120V to 100% Charge: n/a (The "low level" warning covered the charge estimate, should've closed it...)
Temp: -10 C

Km driven at Turtle, if applicable: 50 meters, before pulling over my driveway.

Heater nominal power use:
- Climate control = 0.5 KW average (windshield only, minimal temp, minimal air flow)
- Other systems = 200 W (incl. heated seat, heated steering wheel)

Raw data:

Code: Select all

        Outside Battery         Charge  To 100% Charge
Time    Temp(C) Temp    Km      Bars    240 V   120 V   CC (KW)
12:28   -13     3 bars  0(6657) 12      --:--   --:--
12:29                                                   3
12:29                                                   3.7
12:30                                                   4.6
                        1.1
12:31                                                   4.5
12:32   -12                                             0.75
12:33                                                   0.7
                        4.7
12:35                                                   0.5
                        5.9     11      0:50    2:00
                        6.3     11      1:00
                        7.0                     2:30
                        8.0             1:30    3:00
12:50                                                   0.2
                        9.9                     3:30
                        11.3                    4:00
                        11.4    10      2:00
12:58                                                   0.75
                        13.7                    4:30
12:59   -11
                        16.1                    5:00
                        18.1                    5:30
                        19.8    9
                        21.5            2:30    6:00
                        24.0                    6:30
                        26.9                    7:00
                4 bars  27.1
                        28.9    8
                        29.1                    7:30
                        31.3            3:00    
                        32.4                    8:00
1:26    -10
1:27    -11
                        36.0                    8:30
1:31    -10
                        38.3                    9:00
                        39.2    7
1:34                                                    0.5
                        41.7                    9:30
                        42.4            3:30
                        44.6                    10:00
                        47.1                    11:00
                        49.3    6
                        52.7                    12:00
                        53.3            4:00
1:51                                                    0.75
                        58.7    5
                        59.0                    13:00
                        63.4            4:30
                        64.9                    14:00
                        67.2    4
2:09                                                    0.5
                        70.4                    15:00
                        73.8            5:00
                        75.8    3               16:00
                        81.9                    17:00
                        84.9            5:30
                        86.9    2               18:00
                        92.5                    19:00
                        95.5            6:00
                        98.4                    20:00
                        100.8   1
                        104.2                   21:00
                        104.9   1 Low
3:00                                                    0.75
3:04                                                    0.5
                        120.7   0 ---
                        125.1   Turtle
3:30    -10     4       125.1   Turtle  n/a     n/a     0.5
2011 Nissan LEAF SL + QC, Black
Hand raised: Aug 11, 2010 -- Test driven: May 25, 2011
Reserved: Aug 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT -- Ordered: Sep 16, 2011
Delivered: Sep 23, 2011 (first LEAF in Canada)
EVSE: AeroVironment J1772 (240V/30A)

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Totally awesome collection and data display. You set the bar high!

Email me:

TonyWilliams
at
LoveMyLEAF
com

with your size, color and shipping address!

Thanks,

Who's next?

PS: maybe you'd like to do it again at a different temp?

rborba
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 4814
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:17 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:Totally awesome collection and data display. You set the bar high!
...
PS: maybe you'd like to do it again at a different temp?
Email sent. Thanks!

I can do it with a different temperature for sure. I should've chosen a faster circuit though. The average speed was too slow (about 40 Km/h) so the test took longer than expected.

Ricardo
2011 Nissan LEAF SL + QC, Black
Hand raised: Aug 11, 2010 -- Test driven: May 25, 2011
Reserved: Aug 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT -- Ordered: Sep 16, 2011
Delivered: Sep 23, 2011 (first LEAF in Canada)
EVSE: AeroVironment J1772 (240V/30A)

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:25 pm

Assumed battery temperature at start: -13C (8.6F) up to -10C ambient (14F)
Final Dash Km/kWh: 7.0 (4.34 miles/kWh)
Km traveled total: 125.1 (77.56 miles)

Calculated Battery Capacity: 17.87 kWh - 85%

Rule of Thumb validation: 20C to -13C is 33% below 21kWh = 14.07kWh - 67%
70F to 9F is 30.5% below 21kWh = 14.59kWh - 69.5%

Actual loss of capacity due to temperature: 33C / 61F delta equals 15%

Proposed New Rule of Thumb: 1% loss per 2C below 20C (half previous formula)
1% loss per 4F below 70F (half previous formula)


And that folks is exactly what was suggested by our northern Europe LEAF drivers earlier. I hope we can get some more validation data points (free shirt... be the envy of all your friends and neighbors)


Km driven at Low Battery: 15.8 Km (9.8 miles) net to VLB: 11.4 km (7.1 miles) ???????<<----?

Km driven at Very Low Battery: 4.4 Km (2.7 miles)

Ratio LBW to VLB: 38%

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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:06 pm

rborba wrote: I can do it with a different temperature for sure. I should've chosen a faster circuit though. The average speed was too slow (about 40 Km/h) so the test took longer than expected.

Ricardo
Could you log into CarWings and tell us what it reports for total kWh burned for this trip?

rborba
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 4814
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:48 pm

TonyWilliams wrote: Could you log into CarWings and tell us what it reports for total kWh burned for this trip?
Sure.

Distance traveled: 127.6 Km
Average Energy Economy: 8.1 km/kWh
Electricity Consumption: 15.7 KWh
Travel time: 3.6h

I'm confused though. The extra 2.5 Km (beyond the 125.1 Km of the test) was a trip to the car wash later that night, where I spent about 15-20 minutes with the heater on while waiting in line. Shouldn't the energy economy have gone worse? It was 7.0 when I looked at the dash right after the test... And I looked again after the car wash and it had gone down to 6.6 Km/KWh.

Ricardo
2011 Nissan LEAF SL + QC, Black
Hand raised: Aug 11, 2010 -- Test driven: May 25, 2011
Reserved: Aug 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT -- Ordered: Sep 16, 2011
Delivered: Sep 23, 2011 (first LEAF in Canada)
EVSE: AeroVironment J1772 (240V/30A)

User avatar
TonyWilliams
Posts: 10091
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Wanted: Extreme Cold Range Data (earn free t-shirt!)

Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:10 pm

rborba wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote: Could you log into CarWings and tell us what it reports for total kWh burned for this trip?
Sure.

Distance traveled: 127.6 Km
Average Energy Economy: 8.1 km/kWh
Electricity Consumption: 15.7 KWh
Travel time: 3.6h

I'm confused though. The extra 2.5 Km (beyond the 125.1 Km of the test) was a trip to the car wash later that night, where I spent about 15-20 minutes with the heater on while waiting in line. Shouldn't the energy economy have gone worse? It was 7.0 when I looked at the dash right after the test... And I looked again after the car wash and it had gone down to 6.6 Km/KWh.

Ricardo
CarWings needs the newest revision that you obviously don't have. Thanks, but that data is just wacked. Even with the update, the mileage is off 2.5% and miles/kWh is always 0.1 higher than the dash data.

Tony

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