Valdemar said:
eloder said:
RAV4 EV also has had no problems with significant degradation.
Tony W. should be able to comment on this. And I'm not against TMS, but it probably wouldn't help the original battery much anyway.
Also I tend to accept reports on other cars with a grain of salt. No other car has been scrutinized as fully as the Leaf. The Volt has a fairly large buffer on the top end, so it is not clear if its battery pack stability can be attributed mainly to the TMS. Same likely applies to the Smart EV.
Well, this isn't the thread for this, to be honest.
The Volt has the benefit of:
1) Robust cooling
2) Limited cell usage (20%-80% when new)
3) Superior anode to LEAF (even with same chemistry cells)
4) Masked degradation (they can just expand to 19% - 81%, then 18% - 82%, etc)
So, Volt owners believe that their cells don't degrade. Yes they do, but the range doesn't change due to degradation up to about maybe 25-30%.
The RAV4 EV uses a version of method (1) and (4) above.. The cells absolutley degrade, as all batteries do. My #1134 is at 51289 miles right now, and 30 months in service, and I have 12% degradation. I consider this quite good.
Toyota hides this degradation from the end user by the following method:
---- Normal charge --- Extended charge
SOC% --- 83% ----------- 97% (new car)
SOC% --- 89% ----------- 97% (50,000 miles, 12% degradation)
SOC % --- 95% ---------- 97% (100,000 mile guess, 24% degradation)
As to the Tesla Model S owner claims, heck, I find it hard to believe that Tesla would fudge the numbers as others do, but I could be wrong. I'd love to test a 100,000 mile Tesla that has "1%-2%" rated range loss with its actual range performance under prescribed conditions.
I do know that if I did that test, and it turned out unfavorable to the party line, the crap would hit the fan like it did here when I called out Nissan with their battery issues.
*******
RAV4 EV battery degradation
Make sure that the battery is at room temperature, then:
1) Fully charge vehicle (extended) with the J1772 port (not CHAdeMO)
2) Battery must be near room temperature
3) Turn off cabin climate control with "OFF" button
4) Disconnect the 12 volt battery negative cables and leave off for several hours minimum (overnight is ideal)
Next day:
5) Reconnect 12 volt battery
6) Hold foot on brake and press START button with key fob nearby
7) Energy gauge will show Full (16 illuminated segments) and "LO" on the GOM
8) Wait for navigation unit to complete its start up
9) Press START with brake pedal depressed a second time
10) The displayed range is "RATED RANGE" at 3.5 miles per kWh
11) Divide this Rated Range by 146 to get usable battery capacity compared to new.
Example: 142 rated range / 146 = 97.2% battery capacity from new
********
If you drive the RAV4 EV at my standard test speed of 100km / 62mph ground speed, it will go almost EXACTLY the rated range.
TEST DRIVING PROTOCOL - dry, hard surface level road with no wind or cabin climate control with new condition battery at 70F, no elevation changes, "out-and-back" or loop course to compensate for any wind, 62mph / 100km/h GROUND speed as measured by GPS.
So, if the car is new, it will bang out 146 miles and the rated range will be 146 under the prescribed conditions.
If the rated range is 135, it will go 135.