Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
lorenfb said:and this:
Like I have nothing to do all day but play on the internet, right?
Exactly. You're at 11bars, not 12. And interestingly, your SOH is 80%, not 75%?!
lorenfb said:and this:
Like I have nothing to do all day but play on the internet, right?
lorenfb said:and this:
Like I have nothing to do all day but play on the internet, right?
SageBrush said:That riddle solved.
LorenFB, an offer for you: you continue to teach electronics and we will help you improve your counting skills. :lol:
And by the way, that 11th bar is not for long.
lorenfb said:SageBrush said:That riddle solved.
LorenFB, an offer for you: you continue to teach electronics and we will help you improve your counting skills. :lol:
And by the way, that 11th bar is not for long.
So what! I couldn't care less about a trivial discussion on "Remaining Bars":
Then do not participate in that part of the discussion, and certainly do not provide wrong data. You have @DaveinOly running off on a tangent now that LeafSpy is unreliable and maybe the LEAF battery is not so bio-degradable as trolls like me assert. So where are we with your battery ? Well, about 20% degradation after ~ 4 years. Right on track to have a hobbled battery after the warranty expires. Nissan thanks you for your business, and looks forward to selling you another 7 year wonder-car.lorenfb said:So what! I couldn't care less about a trivial discussion on "Remaining Bars":
johnlocke said:Lost the second bar today! ODO = 34271 mi. AHr = 59.36, SOH =74%, Hx = 66.91% 58 QC's, 640 L1/L2's. 271 GID's at full charge. Could it be that the first bar is 20% and the next 3 bars are 5% each? That would give a 4 bar loss at 65% which is close enough to the 66% you would expect for the loss of 4 bars out of 12. Also the 20% loss of capacity is what Nissan expected at 100000 mi. So the car would have all twelve bars up to the end of the warranty period if the battery held up as expected. Then the last 8 bars would be 8% each. Or it could be that first bar is 20% and the next 11 are about 7% each which is more likely to my mind. Who knows how Nissan has programmed them. Time will tell. I'm expecting a replacement battery by next summer at this rate. Have there been any reports of a 3 bar loss yet?
As far as the capacity bars go, I agree that they're nearly useless as indicators but they are incredibly important as far as the warranty goes. That's the point of the discussion here. The warranty is based on the loss of 4 bars and Nissan has not defined what that value actually is. So we get to play a guessing game based on our observations.
johnlocke said:Lost the second bar today! ODO = 34271 mi. AHr = 59.36, SOH =74%, Hx = 66.91% 58 QC's, 640 L1/L2's. 271 GID's at full charge. Could it be that the first bar is 20% and the next 3 bars are 5% each? That would give a 4 bar loss at 65% which is close enough to the 66% you would expect for the loss of 4 bars out of 12. Also the 20% loss of capacity is what Nissan expected at 100000 mi. So the car would have all twelve bars up to the end of the warranty period if the battery held up as expected. Then the last 8 bars would be 8% each. Or it could be that first bar is 20% and the next 11 are about 7% each which is more likely to my mind. Who knows how Nissan has programmed them. Time will tell. I'm expecting a replacement battery by next summer at this rate. Have there been any reports of a 3 bar loss yet?
As far as the capacity bars go, I agree that they're nearly useless as indicators but they are incredibly important as far as the warranty goes. That's the point of the discussion here. The warranty is based on the loss of 4 bars and Nissan has not defined what that value actually is. So we get to play a guessing game based on our observations.
:shock: Where do you live? Phoenix? The Sahara? On VENUS?!?VAB5 said:5,940 miles. Sweet.
VAB5 said:I lost my 2nd bar today at 5,940 miles. AHr= 58.28, SOH=73%, Hx=73.13%. 5 QC, 257 L1/L2.
5,940 miles. Sweet.
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:35:54 AM): Thank you for chatting with the Nissan LEAF team. This is Jeffrey. How can I help you today?
Me (9/27/2017, 11:36:42 AM): Hi Jeffrey - Thank you for the help. I'm interested in buying a 2017 leaf and taking advantage of my local utility company's rebate, but I have a question about the warranty.
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:36:57 AM): Hello Matthew! I'd be more than happy to assist you!
Me (9/27/2017, 11:37:14 AM): THe warranty I see on Nissan's website says that the 30kWh battery is warrantied to keep 9 or more bars of capacity on the capacity meter during the warranty period.
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:37:29 AM): Correct.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:37:39 AM): My question is about how much range or what percentage of the 30 kWh that translates to.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:38:05 AM): I know how long my commute is, but I want to make sure that the warranty will let me cover it and don't know what "9 bars" means!
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:38:39 AM): 9 bars is approximately 70% of the 30 kWh capacity.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:40:46 AM): Thank you. So if the capacity dropped below that approximately 70% during the warranty period, the bars would change from 9 to 8, and I would be protected from capacity loss much greater than that 70% remaining?
Me (9/27/2017, 11:41:11 AM): Or it switches from 10 to 9 at 70% and the switch from 9 to 8 would be lower?
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:42:09 AM): If at full charge the capacity is below 9 bars (8 or less), and the vehicle is still under warranty, the battery would then be replaced.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:43:51 AM): Great, this is very helpful to me. I still want to clarify one thing though. If 9 bars is 70%, and the battery is eligible for replacement at 8 bars, approximately what percentage of the capacity is 8 bars?
Me (9/27/2017, 11:44:39 AM): Because if it switches to 8 bars at, 65%, for example, then I need to be comfortable covering my commute with anything down to about 65%, right?
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:44:56 AM): Let me take a look, one moment please.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:45:47 AM): Thank you very much for the help.
Jeffrey (9/27/2017, 11:49:46 AM): Thank you for the wait, 8 bars is approximately 63% of the battery capacity.
Me (9/27/2017, 11:51:26 AM): Thank you very much - this is exactly the information I was seeking. Have a great day!
matthanna06 said:There's been a lot of discussion about at what SOH the bars will drop on the 30kWh here, and I thought I'd see if Nissan would give me an answer. Tweeted at them, and they directed me to their Leaf chat support.
Short answer was: On a 30kWh, 9 bars =~ 70% and 8 bars =~ 63%. I didn't ask about SOH or Ahr or anything beyond that. Doesn't seem like that meshes well with people losing a 2nd bar at ~73% SOH or ~high 50's Ah's.
Most likely bet is 20% for the first bar and 6% each for the next three ( and probably the rest as well ). Zero bars at about 15% if anyone ever ran a battery that far. Asymptotic curve isn't likely since you'ld end up at 0 bars with 50% of battery capacity left. Call me cynical but my guess is that Nissan wanted to have all 12 bars show until the end of the warranty period. "Look folks, see how well our battery holds up! 100000 miles and it still has all 12 bars!" Probably would have worked in cool climates like the northwest and the northeast. Just not in the south and southwest. That plus the fact that Leafs only average 8000-9000 miles a year. 8 years and 60-70K miles before the warranty runs out. It's Idiots like me who bought a Leaf because I have cheap Solar and planned to drive it into the ground that are ruining Nissan's master plan.Oils4AsphaultOnly said:matthanna06 said:There's been a lot of discussion about at what SOH the bars will drop on the 30kWh here, and I thought I'd see if Nissan would give me an answer. Tweeted at them, and they directed me to their Leaf chat support.
Short answer was: On a 30kWh, 9 bars =~ 70% and 8 bars =~ 63%. I didn't ask about SOH or Ahr or anything beyond that. Doesn't seem like that meshes well with people losing a 2nd bar at ~73% SOH or ~high 50's Ah's.
Since 9 bars was off the top of his head, and he had to ask about the 8 bars, I'd assume that the 9bars number is unreliable.
So extrapolating that 80% is 1 lost bar, and 63% is 4 lost bars, we divide 17 by 3 yielding ~6% each bar after the first. Giving us 74% for the 2nd lost bar, and 68% for the 3rd lost bar (70% rounded up).
Pulling this out of my nether regions, but maybe it's an asymptotic curve fit (19% first, 8% for 2nd, then 6% for third, and 5% for fourth)?
Edit: Thank you matthanna06 for the brilliance of simply asking Nissan!
Very informative, thanksmatthanna06 said:There's been a lot of discussion about at what SOH the bars will drop on the 30kWh here, and I thought I'd see if Nissan would give me an answer. Tweeted at them, and they directed me to their Leaf chat support.
Short answer was: On a 30kWh, 9 bars =~ 70% and 8 bars =~ 63%. I didn't ask about SOH or Ahr or anything beyond that. Doesn't seem like that meshes well with people losing a 2nd bar at ~73% SOH or ~high 50's Ah's.
I doubt Nissan cares how many bars show if it does not cost them money. Their current manipulation saves them money in two ways:johnlocke said:Call me cynical but my guess is that Nissan wanted to have all 12 bars show until the end of the warranty period. "Look folks, see how well our battery holds up! 100000 miles and it still has all 12 bars!" Probably would have worked in cool climates like the northwest and the northeast. Just not in the south and southwest. That plus the fact that Leafs only average 8000-9000 miles a year. 8 years and 60-70K miles before the warranty runs out. It's Idiots like me who bought a Leaf because I have cheap Solar and planned to drive it into the ground that are ruining Nissan's master plan.
Sam Backus at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1641758815894953/ is now posting pics of being down 4 bars on his '16 SL in Phoenix. This makes at least the 2nd 4 bar loser on these 30 kWh Leafs.jbuntz said:cwerdna said:https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1591060294298139/ is a report of a 3 bar loser on a 30 kWh car. Post says location is Chandler, AZ, states car is 1.5 years old and shows 14,099 miles on the odo.
So he gets a new battery with the next bar loss?
Sam Backus, also from AZ, is reporting 3 bar loss in that same thread....
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