lorenfb
Posts: 2425
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:49 am

iPlug wrote:The 30kWh battery warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles (from the original warranty information booklet):


LITHIUM-ION BATTERY CAPACITY COVERAGE
In addition to the lithium-ion Battery Coverage for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium- ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, for vehicles equipped with the 24 kWh battery or 96 months or 100,000 miles for vehicles equipped with the 30 kWh battery, whichever comes first.

This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original lithium- ion battery will be returned to the vehicle. If nec- essary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured lithium-ion battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return your lithium-ion battery to an “as new” con- dition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.



So 30kWh Leaf owners in warm climates may be getting their battery replaced 3-4 times, gratis!
As expected, once the new car warranty ends, i.e. 96/100K for the 30 kWh, a replacement battery warranty becomes a one year warranty
as is the case for all vehicle replacement parts.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:59 am

lorenfb wrote:As expected, once the new car warranty ends, i.e. 96/100K for the 30 kWh, a replacement battery warranty becomes a one year warranty as is the case for all vehicle replacement parts.
That is true ONLY for Li-ion battery replacements made under the original Li-ion battery warranty. For purchased replacement batteries, a fully capacity and defect warranty starts at the time the battery is replaced.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

lorenfb
Posts: 2425
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:00 am

RegGuheert wrote:
lorenfb wrote:As expected, once the new car warranty ends, i.e. 96/100K for the 30 kWh, a replacement battery warranty becomes a one year warranty as is the case for all vehicle replacement parts.
That is true ONLY for Li-ion battery replacements made under the original Li-ion battery warranty. For purchased replacement batteries, a fully capacity and defect warranty starts at the time the battery is replaced.
We're still missing the explicitly defined and annotated document from Nissan with respect to all types of battery replacements, to determine
whether or when a replacement battery is considered just another replacement part and falls under the standard one year warranty.
As said before, I seriously doubt that Nissan or any OEM automotive manufacturer would want a continuously increasing part replacement
liability, i.e. a battery, on their balance sheet.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:12 am

lorenfb wrote:We're still missing the explicitly defined and annotated document from Nissan with respect to all types of battery replacements, to determine whether or when a replacement battery is considered just another replacement part and falls under the standard one year warranty.
No, we are not. The explicit statement is in the link I provided.
lorenfb wrote:As said before, I seriously doubt that Nissan or any OEM automotive manufacturer would want a continuously increasing part replacement liability, i.e. a battery, on their balance sheet.
Nissan does, regardless of what you believe.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

lorenfb
Posts: 2425
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:29 am

RegGuheert wrote:
lorenfb wrote:We're still missing the explicitly defined and annotated document from Nissan with respect to all types of battery replacements, to determine whether or when a replacement battery is considered just another replacement part and falls under the standard one year warranty.
No, we are not. The explicit statement is in the link I provided.
lorenfb wrote:As said before, I seriously doubt that Nissan or any OEM automotive manufacturer would want a continuously increasing part replacement liability, i.e. a battery, on their balance sheet.
Nissan does, regardless of what you believe.
Sorry, I don't see a legally printed document from Nissan Corporate. You are aware of anecdotal information that gets posted on forums, right?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:40 am

lorenfb wrote:Sorry, I don't see a legally printed document from Nissan Corporate. You are aware of anecdotal information that gets posted on forums, right?
Brian Brockman was a Senior Manager of Corporate Communications for Nissan at the time he made that post.

Unless you can produce the warranty document for a purchased Nissan Li-ion battery that shows otherwise, we have it on very good authority that this is Nissan's plan for those sales.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

eatsleafsandshoots
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:41 am

Get it to 99k in a few years, let it sit at full charge until it loses bars, but before the 8 years is up, get a replacement battery for free. Boom. We will avenge you, people Nissan has screwed!

lorenfb
Posts: 2425
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:51 am

RegGuheert wrote:Brian Brockman was a Senior Manager of Corporate Communications for Nissan at the time he made that post.
So what! Again, where's the present Nissan Corporate document?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 am

RegGuheert wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Sorry, I don't see a legally printed document from Nissan Corporate. You are aware of anecdotal information that gets posted on forums, right?
Brian Brockman was a Senior Manager of Corporate Communications for Nissan at the time he made that post.

Unless you can produce the warranty document for a purchased Nissan Li-ion battery that shows otherwise, we have it on very good authority that this is Nissan's plan for those sales.
And one other data point I am aware of that supports your position:
@JPWhite bought a replacement traction battery and told me in a PM that he read the small print warranty at the time and found it be similar if not exact to the degradation warranty for a battery in a new car.

So I am at least convinced that the 5 yr/60k degradation warranty was in fact offered on replacement batteries paid for out of pocket. I don't know, however, if this is still the case; or if it will be true in the future.

I admit though, it bugs me that that we cannot find the warranty from Nissan.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

iPlug
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:04 pm

We received no specific new warranty document for our 30 KWh battery just replaced under warranty, no fine print or otherwise. I don't know if this is because the battery was replaced under warranty for no cost to us or because we are leasing or something else.

It would be incredible if a replacement battery restarts the 8 year/100k mile capacity warranty clock, so we should be rather skeptical without having that in writing. There have been folks on boards claiming to be people they are not. Additionally, some employees may misspeak/overspeak and endorse things not guaranteed by corporate.

It sounds like the reset warranty might be the case if the customer pays for a new battery out of warranty, but we should also want first hand written evidence of that as well.

If anyone has any sort of battery replacement warranty documented, presenting here would be most helpful.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

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