2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

GaleHawkins said:

I am getting new tires tomorrow since the OEM's are down to the markers. That is not many miles for Michelin tires in my view but I know the leaf is heavy.

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Lots of folks have gone through the original tires in a short time. The Leaf is a heavy car but the original Ecopia tires wear quickly. The replacement tires will probably out-perform the OEM tires if they are a good brand.

GaleHawkins said:

I think the person who had leased the 2016 Leaf for 3 years only used the OEM L1 perhaps based on the 740 recharges averaged out to occur every 30 miles of driving. At first it only reported a range of 72 miles when fully charged. The with deep recharges on the L2 charger it reported as high as 95 miles but that would drop by about 3-4 miles for every actual mile driven. Now a 100% charge shows a range of like 72-84 miles but seems to be without any real meaning. Not sure how it popped to 95 that one time.

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.
You are GOM'd.

Read the kWh from LeafSpy in relation to SoC.
And get the software update

goldbrick said:

GaleHawkins said:

I am getting new tires tomorrow since the OEM's are down to the markers. That is not many miles for Michelin tires in my view but I know the leaf is heavy.

Click to expand...

Lots of folks have gone through the original tires in a short time. The Leaf is a heavy car but the original Ecopia tires wear quickly. The replacement tires will probably out-perform the OEM tires if they are a good brand.

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Even the aftermarket version of the OEM Ecopia tires will outperform them. They are pretty well liked - especially compared with the de-rated OEM version.

LeftieBiker said:

If your problem was bad cells, you wouldn't be showing a loss of capacity bars - just a huge drop in range as you drive. (Not just the usual self-corrections of the inaccurate range estimator.) You do need to have the software patch applied to get a new battery, but that doesn't usually restore more than one or two bars, IIRC, and your range seems to indicate a genuinely degraded battery.

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I expect you are correct. Actually all my cells seem to be in tack voltage wise. This morning they averaged 4.085 volts each and that is a new development. I guess I will try to find a dealer that can service the Leaf. Nashville may be my best bet since I live 3 miles into KY from Paris TN.

My first objective was to learn about my battery and Leaf Spy Pro before turning the car over to Nissan techs to do the software patch. If the battery is failing I need to get started on the paper work after I lose another bar and get the software update ASAP. I can use another 30-40 miles of range.

My battery management software has not been updated as far as I know and still is very flaky. Range at 100% SOC normally is around 70-72 miles. This morning at 100% charge the reported best guess range was 95 miles. In the first 10.5 driving miles today the range estimator had dropped from 95 to 65 miles. Yesterday the meters was more more linear. This happened a couple weeks ago with the same drop like a rock actual results. Does anyone know the variables the computer is using to get these wild swings of the GOM?

Now I know turtle mode reduces power to motor in a major way. I kept driving after I hit 7 GID's up and down the steep hill to my house. At WOT up the hill on the last run it was like the car had died but it went back to pulling when the speed dropped to about 30 MPH and the Leaf Spy Pro reported 5 GID's at that time.

Total range at a reported 72 mile range and the 95 mile range estimate was 60 actual miles with the same electrical load for comfort in winter driving. While it is recharging now yesterday I used 20.5 kwh of at 240 volts drawing 26 kw max to get back to 100% SOC reading.

SOH starts out at 64.5% when SOC is at 100% and GID's report being at about 65% at the same time.

While there was no regen in reverse I saw greater Regen values in D than in B mode. In B mode I never saw more than 30 kv even braking hard. At about the same speed and braking pressure I did see 40 kv o Regen in D mode however. Those values from Leaf Spy Pro surprised me. B mode does give a more single pedal driving feel and I try to drive without using the service brakes as much as possible like in the straight shift days.

I want to next try some DC charging at Walmart. Some have reported gaining a bar after using the DC charging port option. Since a 60 mile actual range works OK for our needs at this time I am very happy with this 2016 Leaf SL. If range does not change I plan to go for the software update that is go give back the full 107 miles expected range if the battery is actually healthy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIMIydAfWIU

I found this video helpful in that he used about 22 kWh to add a range of 91 miles.

If a range test shows a degraded battery then the BMS update will likely add a little range (by using more of the available charge at the "bottom" of the pack) but I don't think it will restore anything like full range. The update doesn't do anything Magic to the pack - it just re-calibrates the BMS and tells it to estimate capacity a bit more optimistically. So I'd expect a nine bar Leaf to go to 12, then drop back to maybe ten bars. The good news in that case would be an eventual warranty battery replacement.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/3176813682389451/ (private Leaf group, unfortunately) is a 4 bar loser on a '16 SL. He mentions it's his 2nd 4 bar loss. 1st time, he got the BMS firmware update which "fixed" things, temporarily.

He says "the GIDs at full charge are 223 it is pretty stable and varies by less than 5 GIDs." and "SOH was 62.61% at the time of the 4th drop". He's in the Phoenix metro area.

If these 30 kWh batteries are this bad (in general) in Phoenix, those folks might receive 2+ replacements within their capacity warranty.

I guess this is #2 I know of. Will restart a list later tonight/this weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 682389451/ (private Leaf group, unfortunately) is a 4 bar loser on a '16 SL. He mentions it's his 2nd 4 bar loss. 1st time, he got the BMS firmware update which "fixed" things, temporarily.

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Did he mention if it went back to 12 bars with the update, or to fewer than that?

^^^
No, not in that post, but luckily FB search worked and I found his previous post at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/2013253865412111/ from June 25, 2018. He hit 4 bars back then, received the firmware update which turned his 4 bar loser into a 1 bar loser before it became eventually became a 4 bar loser again, probably today/this week.

cwerdna said:

^^^
No, not in that post, but luckily FB search worked and I found his previous post at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/2013253865412111/ from June 25, 2018. He hit 4 bars back then, received the firmware update which turned his 4 bar loser into a 1 bar loser before it became eventually became a 4 bar loser again, probably today/this week.

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Thanks, that was useful info.

No prob. Forgot to include something else from that June 25, 2018 post. Back then he said "We have had it for 18 months of a 3 year lease. "

Let's hope that isn't predictive of the newer packs...

GaleHawkins said:

LeftieBiker said:

You should get a new battery in the coming year (at most two) under the 8 year, 100,000 mile capacity warranty.

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That is what the salesman at the Nissan dealership told me but here I have read some just get bad cells replaced. Nissan has stated the battery controller software has to be applied first to see if it will give the missing SOH bars back. Currently my range is about 70 miles max going to until the turtle icon pops up on the display. I expect the software upgrade will fix it from what I have read but if not I guess I will learn what Nissan wants to do. Currently the battery seems to be more stable and I am working to understand how the software patch works before going for that fix. If it does not fix it than I will be pushing for a new battery but they have not been put in new cars for over two years so that could get interesting. Leaf Spy Pro is really helping me learn about EV batteries.

I think the person who had leased the 2016 Leaf for 3 years only used the OEM L1 perhaps based on the 740 recharges averaged out to occur every 30 miles of driving. At first it only reported a range of 72 miles when fully charged. The with deep recharges on the L2 charger it reported as high as 95 miles but that would drop by about 3-4 miles for every actual mile driven. Now a 100% charge shows a range of like 72-84 miles but seems to be without any real meaning. Not sure how it popped to 95 that one time.

The car looks new like inside and out and has the 4 exterior cameras that I need when parking since I have no head movement due to arthritis that fused my spine. I never want to be without an EV in the future.

The car has been in service for 38 months and today only has 23,000 miles so I have some coverage for a while. I am getting new tires tomorrow since the OEM's are down to the markers. That is not many miles for Michelin tires in my view but I know the leaf is heavy.

Thanks for the comments because I have a lot to learn and appreciate this website for info.

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The OEM Michelin tires that came on my 2015 and 2019 are the worst passenger car radial tires I have owned. They have marginal wet traction and the ones on the 2015 were bald at about 26,000 miles even though I rotated them a few times. I am considering no rotations on the 2019--just replace them when the fronts are bald and hope for some trade in credit on the rears. Since range may be an issue for you, I recommend the Plus version of Bridgestone Ecopias. The Ecopias have much better wet traction (if inflated to at least 40 psi) and lower rolling resistance than the OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S.

I suggest that you go ahead with the software update now. It may improve your range slightly or it may not, but it must be done before Nissan will replace the battery or even just weak cells.

GerryAZ said:

GaleHawkins said:

LeftieBiker said:

You should get a new battery in the coming year (at most two) under the 8 year, 100,000 mile capacity warranty.

Click to expand...

That is what the salesman at the Nissan dealership told me but here I have read some just get bad cells replaced. Nissan has stated the battery controller software has to be applied first to see if it will give the missing SOH bars back. Currently my range is about 70 miles max going to until the turtle icon pops up on the display. I expect the software upgrade will fix it from what I have read but if not I guess I will learn what Nissan wants to do. Currently the battery seems to be more stable and I am working to understand how the software patch works before going for that fix. If it does not fix it than I will be pushing for a new battery but they have not been put in new cars for over two years so that could get interesting. Leaf Spy Pro is really helping me learn about EV batteries.

I think the person who had leased the 2016 Leaf for 3 years only used the OEM L1 perhaps based on the 740 recharges averaged out to occur every 30 miles of driving. At first it only reported a range of 72 miles when fully charged. The with deep recharges on the L2 charger it reported as high as 95 miles but that would drop by about 3-4 miles for every actual mile driven. Now a 100% charge shows a range of like 72-84 miles but seems to be without any real meaning. Not sure how it popped to 95 that one time.

The car looks new like inside and out and has the 4 exterior cameras that I need when parking since I have no head movement due to arthritis that fused my spine. I never want to be without an EV in the future.

The car has been in service for 38 months and today only has 23,000 miles so I have some coverage for a while. I am getting new tires tomorrow since the OEM's are down to the markers. That is not many miles for Michelin tires in my view but I know the leaf is heavy.

Thanks for the comments because I have a lot to learn and appreciate this website for info.

Click to expand...

The OEM Michelin tires that came on my 2015 and 2019 are the worst passenger car radial tires I have owned. They have marginal wet traction and the ones on the 2015 were bald at about 26,000 miles even though I rotated them a few times. I am considering no rotations on the 2019--just replace them when the fronts are bald and hope for some trade in credit on the rears. Since range may be an issue for you, I recommend the Plus version of Bridgestone Ecopias. The Ecopias have much better wet traction (if inflated to at least 40 psi) and lower rolling resistance than the OEM Michelin Energy Saver A/S.

I suggest that you go ahead with the software update now. It may improve your range slightly or it may not, but it must be done before Nissan will replace the battery or even just weak cells.

Click to expand...

https://tirereviewsandmore.com/nexen-n-priz-ah8-reviews/

I was taken back when I realized our 23K mile OEM Michelin tires were just a hair from touching the wear markers. Since one tire was losing about 10 PSI a week and winter is upon us in KY I decided to get a new set. The OEM match was $165 each and the Nexen of the same OEM size was $95 and highly recommended by the shop and online as you can read. It came down to more of the same for $660 or try another option for $380 out of the door.

On wet payment it is much harder to spin the new tires at WOT starts. Of course they are a tad taller making them harder to spin. If they get 1/2 of rated tread wear that will be 12K miles better than the OEM Michelin.

I have more research to dig up and learn more about using Leaf Spy Pro in understanding the 30 kWh battery showing 9/12 bars at purchase so it may be Spring before finding a Leaf authorized service center in West TN if it needs to stay overnight for testing. I want to test the range without WOT take offs, heated seats and steering wheel and defrosting front and rear glass and pumping out a lot of heat in defrost mode that triggers the AC to run. I can get 60 miles of range from 233 to 6 GIDs which is about twice what I need before getting back to the house where I have typically 5 hours before the afternoon repeat of the morning run.

This morning I was hoping to get to Paducah for my first DC fast charge but that did not happen. After the dogs finish their morning run I need to try to get over to the shop and get the skin back on the 1948 Model B Allis Chambers tractor so I can get it back to the house soon. Trying to relive the past but buying it with the blown engine has made it more of learning and spending project than I expected. Hope the 9/12 bar Leaf project goes better. At least I am trying to live the EV future and not the past.

GerryAZ said:

The OEM Michelin tires that came on my 2015 and 2019 are the worst passenger car radial tires I have owned. They have marginal wet traction and the ones on the 2015 were bald at about 26,000 miles even though I rotated them a few times.

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My 2014 OEM Michelin tires are getting replaced today at almost 60k miles. I've not noticed any wet traction issue.

WetEV said:

GerryAZ said:

The OEM Michelin tires that came on my 2015 and 2019 are the worst passenger car radial tires I have owned. They have marginal wet traction and the ones on the 2015 were bald at about 26,000 miles even though I rotated them a few times.

Click to expand...

My 2014 OEM Michelin tires are getting replaced today at almost 60k miles. I've not noticed any wet traction issue.

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They may be better in your cool, wet climate, but the rubber hardens in my hot, dry climate and the sidewalks even start cracking after less than a year.

GerryAZ said:

WetEV said:

GerryAZ said:

The OEM Michelin tires that came on my 2015 and 2019 are the worst passenger car radial tires I have owned. They have marginal wet traction and the ones on the 2015 were bald at about 26,000 miles even though I rotated them a few times.

Click to expand...

My 2014 OEM Michelin tires are getting replaced today at almost 60k miles. I've not noticed any wet traction issue.

Click to expand...

They may be better in your cool, wet climate, but the rubber hardens in my hot, dry climate and the sidewalks even start cracking after less than a year.

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It also depends on the road surfaces you drive on and how curvy the roads are. I barely get half the rated mileage out of any tire on any vehicle I own. Windy back country roads take a toll on the tires.

my 2017 leaf sv just lost its first bar yesterday at 28100 miles

amissionleaf said:

my 2017 leaf sv just lost its first bar yesterday at 28100 miles

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yikes. do you live in a hot climate?

goldbrick said:

amissionleaf said:

my 2017 leaf sv just lost its first bar yesterday at 28100 miles

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yikes. do you live in a hot climate?

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not really. in CA bay area