dmacarthur
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:25 am

I made a mistake, bought a Leaf Plus S without the cold package in Vermont (but got a good deal on it), we had heated seats installed that work beautifully and bought a Hammacher Schlemmer heated steering wheel kit used on eBay for those worst mornings, it is a pain but better than not having it. The resistance heater is really very quick, less than a minute to get warm air blowing, and we simply have to lose mileage in order to stay comfy but the larger battery allows this. I agree with a previous post that our mileage has gone from about 4 m/kwh to about 3.5, which is acceptable. And living at the top of a hill, we can heat guilt-free first thing after leaving fully charged.
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15533
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:37 am

Getting 3.5 m/kwh with resistance heat only is a real accomplishment. You should also try, if you aren't aware of it, "Automatic Recirculation" which I call "Partial Recirculation." With the recirculate button lit (On) press and hold it for two seconds. The light will flash twice and go out if you are successful, and you will get a mix of about 30% fresh air and 70% recirculated air, to keep the cabin warm with less energy but also prevent (usually) window fogging. If you don't hold the button for two seconds, the light will still likely go out, but the screen will display "Fresh Air." It indicates nothing when partial recirculation is engaged, annoyingly. This mode won't work in Defrost only mode, and on older leafs won't work in Floor + Defrost mode. (In that case use Floor only mode and raise the fan to at least 2.)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

coloradoman
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:30 am
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2016
Location: Knoxville

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:21 am

Chilly 19 degrees this morning. I drove the normal 27.5 miles and got 3 miles a kwh on the dash. I had a full charge with preheated and used 29 percent of the battery. I went from an estimated 150mile range to 105miles. I used the heat sparingly when I needed to defrost. I drove around 70-80 mph most of the way.

So less than a mile per a percent on eco mode. If the epa is right in their estimate of 150 mile range, my range is down to 94.8m when the temperature is around freezing based on the percent of the battery I used. This means that 24.8 percent of my battery is going just to the fact it was around freezing. Is that normal? Here is some more facts maybe someone can give me a better answer than my vague description earlier.

I do have to admit it seems the increase psi I had in my tires helped a bit. I only used 64% more battery based on the fact that the guess-o-meter told me I had used 45m, when the commute is actually 27.5m. This is an improvement over the earlier case last week before I inflated my tires more where I used 69% more energy. It was also much colder this morning than the other try.
Last edited by coloradoman on Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

css28
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Aug 2019
Location: Bloomfield Twp, Michigan

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:30 am

9° F this morning and am pleasantly surprised how my car is handling the cold (this being my first winter with it). This car has heated steering wheel and heat pump.

Even at this ambient temperature level, running with the heat set at 60° the car shows ~1.3 kW climate draw for the first half hour of the drive. I'd expected a bigger hit to the effective range.

P.S.: Not literally.
- Chris
----------
2017 SV, purchased 8/10/19, Coulis red

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15073
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:21 am

coloradoman wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:29 pm
ok I think I found the main problem. PSI was at 31 in the tires. I guess the change in elevation and the cold makes my tires softer. I will check how this affects things. Isn't the recommended psi like 36?
Better to be a few over the 36 in Winter. Cold will reduce tire pressures from Summer settings. There is supposed to be a difference in traction, etc. from lower pressures but after YEARS of extensive testing over several cars, I have found any difference to be quite small.

Another thing to consider is sidewall integrity. Sidewalls are designed to limit horizontal motion especially on turns, roundabouts, etc. The higher the pressure, the better the sidewalls do their job. Reducing the body sway of the car goes a long way towards maintaining control of the vehicle.

But sidewalls have nearly no vertical strength. In a properly inflated tire, the air takes care of all that. What this means is running even a short distance on low pressure will affect the integrity of the sidewall which can mean early failure, extra flexing (which means you will not come close to your tire's mileage rating) etc.

There is no real additional danger to more tire pressure (at or below the tire sidewall maximum) but many downsides to lower tire pressures.

Finally; tires lose air all the time. The bead is a pressure fit to the wheel. The higher the pressure, the better the seal. Low tire pressure can cause more seepage meaning low tire pressures are prone to losing pressure faster. This is another reason you want to run high. It simply gives you more time to air up when needed.

I, like nearly everyone here, is perfect example of the human condition. I am lazy. I keep my tires at 44 PSI but right now they are running between 40 to 41 PSI cold. I have been meaning to add a few lbs for about 3 weeks and still haven't gotten around to it.

There is a reason (has nothing to do with the tire pressure debate) that I will get into in much further detail in a week or so. ;)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

timmyho
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:03 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2019
Leaf Number: 303210

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:23 am

Coloradoman,
I actually live in CO, and echo most of the comments already posted. Get a L2, preheat, partial recirculation, Tire PSI

Get one of the electric blankets, only uses minimal power draw compared to cabin heater, $30 bucks on Amazon.

Also, here is the AAA report on EV driving in cold (and warm) climates. Leafs actually do quite well due to the Heat Pump, since you have the resistance heater only in S model your results will be worse as others have pointed out.

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/file ... Report.pdf
=

Tortoisehead77
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307925
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:41 pm

coloradoman wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:21 am

my range is down to 94.8m when the temperature is around freezing based on the percent of the battery I used.
I'm averaging less than 100 miles range on my 2018 model S since November.

Fortunately, it's usually above 40 degrees F in the Pacific Northwest in the day time. I imagine my range would be even less if it was below freezing in both morning and afternoon commute times.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2104
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:52 pm

How much heat do you run to drag down range that much?

That AAA report was great. Thank you for sharing. Its interesting that most of the cars took a range hit at 95F, even with AC off (guessing it was the battery cooling sucking the power). I have found some of my longest runs done at 90F outside. The 62 Battery does really well at 80-100F. (though may degrade faster, hard to tell right now).
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15073
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:17 am

Tortoisehead77 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:41 pm
coloradoman wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:21 am

my range is down to 94.8m when the temperature is around freezing based on the percent of the battery I used.
I'm averaging less than 100 miles range on my 2018 model S since November.

Fortunately, it's usually above 40 degrees F in the Pacific Northwest in the day time. I imagine my range would be even less if it was below freezing in both morning and afternoon commute times.
What method are you using to determine your range?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tortoisehead77
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307925
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Cold sucks (literally)

Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:36 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:17 am
What method are you using to determine your range?
[/quote]

Odometer (trip meter). I usually take it down to 10-15% remaining charge and I'm usually less than 90 miles on the trip meter by the time I get that low.

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