Real life figures of vampire drain in 2018 Leaf

I am looking for someone that has real experience with having a Nissan Leaf outdoors when the temperature is around 0C/32F and lower. How long does it take before they need to charge?
I am asking this because I am thinking of buying a used Nissan Leaf SL (~35k km/22k miles) in Canada and I do not have access to charging in my building and the parking is an above ground multi-story covered parking garage. I (and many others probably) work a lot from home and don't need to drive every day. There are plenty of public level 2 and level 3 chargers in my part of the city just not where I can park.

That question has more than one answer. If the car in question is a 2013, then it may be fine for months (unless the battery heater activates) or it may have a too-high vampire drain on the 12 volt accessory battery- especially if it had the telematics unit 2G to 3G upgrade. If the car is a 2014 or newer, then it will likely be fine - again, unless the battery heater comes on, which happens when the battery temp (not the air temp) reaches about 8F. If the battery heater comes on and stays on in Frigid weather, then it can use up to about 30% charge per 24 hours, if I remember correctly.

Since you wrote 2018 in the title it is easier to answer. The 2018 has an excellent charging logic for the 12V battery, and since you said 0*C it won't trigger battery heating (that is only when it goes below -17*C). The car should be able to stand for months unplugged at 0*C.

Since you wrote 2018 in the title it is easier to answer.

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Heh! Yes, indeed. I have to stop responding to posts before I'm awake.

The 2018 has an excellent charging logic for the 12V battery

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Here we disagree, as it depends on how the car is used. Mine isn't driven very much, and I've seen the accessory battery as low as 12.25 volts at rest. I don't think a 2018 accessory battery will actually go dead, but I'd advise to charge it up once in a while if the car isn't used much.

LeftieBiker said:

Since you wrote 2018 in the title it is easier to answer.

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Heh! Yes, indeed. I have to stop responding to posts before I'm awake.

The 2018 has an excellent charging logic for the 12V battery

Click to expand...

Here we disagree, as it depends on how the car is used. Mine isn't driven very much, and I've seen the accessory battery as low as 12.25 volts at rest. I don't think a 2018 accessory battery will actually go dead, but I'd advise to charge it up once in a while if the car isn't used much.

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Really? On my 2018 I sometimes see one of the blue lights flash for a while, I am told that the traction battery is charging the 12v battery. So why the need to separately charge the 12v battery?

On my 2018 I sometimes see one of the blue lights flash for a while, I am told that the traction battery is charging the 12v battery. So why the need to separately charge the 12v battery?

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Nissan's charging algorithm for the Leaf has always been a little less than perfect - often a lot less, depending on how the car is driven. Infrequent, mainly short trips seem to contribute to a low accessory battery. You can also drain the accessory battery by leaving the car plugged in for a long time (days, usually) after charging has stopped. If you drive the car a lot, this isn't likely to be a problem, except maybe for some 2013 Leafs. If you drive it once or twice a week, and don't drive it for far or long, then you may want to top off the accessory battery at least once a month, with an external charger/maintainer, or at least check the resting voltage of that little battery. If it becomes an issue, then replacing the OEM 12 volt battery with a higher capacity AGM battery usually solves the problem. Why? Partly because those batteries are more forgiving, and the higher capacity carries the battery over the low-charge periods. But it also seems that higher capacity batteries just charge better in the Leaf, suggesting that it was originally programmed for a different type and capacity battery, and that was never changed when they instead went with cheap starting type batteries.

I never connected an external charger to the 12V batteries in the 2011 and 2015. I jump started them a couple of times, but just let the DC-DC converter recharge the batteries (the 2011 was dead after leaving the OBDII adapter plugged in while it was parked for a few days and the 2015 was dead after the first 3G upgraded cellular modem locked up while it was parked over a weekend). So far, I have not connected an external charger to the 12V battery in the 2019. I notice the 2019 charging the 12V battery while parked more frequently than the previous cars (single flashing blue light on dash indicates 12V charging while car is off). The charging algorithm of the 2015 was better than the 2011 and the charging algorithm of the 2019 is better than the 2015. I left the 2019 parked under covered parking at my office from 9/29 to 10/27 and Leaf Spy indicated a loss in state of charge of only 18 "Gids" which is about 1.5 kWh so it could be parked for several months without worrying about vampire drain in my climate.

Vampire drain seems to run a whole gamut with the Leaf. Gerry represents the extreme "Good" end of that, while I'm near the other end, where occasional external charging is a good idea. And my housemate's 2020 SV+ read 12.17 on the accessory battery last week, after being stored for about three weeks...

The traction battery charges the 12V battery as needed while parked. The 2019 clearly has more vampire drain on the 12V battery than the earlier cars so it charges from the traction battery while parked more frequently. It still does not use much power compared to the capacity of the 62 kWh traction battery. When it was parked for almost a month, it reduced the SOC (state of charge) of the traction battery by 18 "Gids" or about 1.5 kWh, according to Leaf Spy. This means it could sit without being plugged in for many months in my climate without draining the traction battery and the 12V battery would be kept charged by periodically activating the DC-DC converter. The 12V battery is at 12.562 volts after the car has been parked for 6-1/2 hours and was only driven for several short trips since yesterday morning. The OBDII adapter has been plugged in all the time, but the Android device is only running Leaf Spy when the car is ON (in Ready mode).

It should be noted that I had charged the 2020's 12 volt battery almost fully before storing it.

LeftieBiker said:

It should be noted that I had charged the 2020's 12 volt battery almost fully before storing it.

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Interesting, I have never measured that low voltage (12.17 noted in your earlier post) except when the OEM batteries in the 2011 and 2015 were failing (after between 2 and 2.5 years of use). I usually see between 12.5 and 12.8 after the computers sleep. Usually just under 13 volts shortly after extended driving or charging.

It must be our differing use cases, maybe including climates. This is my/our third Leaf, and all of them have had consistently low 12 volt battery rest voltages. I'll be adding a battery maintainer pigtail to the 2020 so I can top it off once a month at least. We are primarily using my 2018 until I turn it in next year, so I suspect (but will verify) that the more frequent use is keeping that one better charged.

Baltneu said:

LeftieBiker said:

Since you wrote 2018 in the title it is easier to answer.

Click to expand...

Heh! Yes, indeed. I have to stop responding to posts before I'm awake.

The 2018 has an excellent charging logic for the 12V battery

Click to expand...

Here we disagree, as it depends on how the car is used. Mine isn't driven very much, and I've seen the accessory battery as low as 12.25 volts at rest. I don't think a 2018 accessory battery will actually go dead, but I'd advise to charge it up once in a while if the car isn't used much.

Click to expand...

Really? On my 2018 I sometimes see one of the blue lights flash for a while, I am told that the traction battery is charging the 12v battery. So why the need to separately charge the 12v battery?

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Baltneu; the next time you catch the 12 volt charging, check its status when the charge is done. In the times I have caught it, I never had to wait 10 mins for it to finish so it won't be long. These charge sessions do not fully charge the battery and for lead acid, that is not good. This is the time of year where many many many people will post in social media about their cars acting up. The 12 volt doesn't have to be dead to cause problems. Low voltage plays havoc with the system. In outside temps in Canada? Better have a jump box available and it better be stored inside your house.

GerryAZ said:

LeftieBiker said:

It should be noted that I had charged the 2020's 12 volt battery almost fully before storing it.

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Interesting, I have never measured that low voltage (12.17 noted in your earlier post) except when the OEM batteries in the 2011 and 2015 were failing (after between 2 and 2.5 years of use). I usually see between 12.5 and 12.8 after the computers sleep. Usually just under 13 volts shortly after extended driving or charging.

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Sounds like you aren't waiting long enough. I haven't checked the plus (right now, its at 12.32 volts so actually pretty good Nissan wise) but my 2018 the voltage after the charge would drop immediately to around 13 volts and slowly drop from there. I also checked after 30 mins and it was 12.7 but 4 hours later it was 12.4 and the next morning it was 12.28. Garage temp range 50- 54º

Since I only have an S, my voltage should sit a bit higher than someone with telematics. Now the Plus has wi fi so not sure that negates the "S advantage" or not?

**EDIT** Completely forgot something. I was trying to evaluate any improvement with the 12 volt charging algorithm so used my Go Pro set to slowest frame speed to record charging sessions and they were still short ~ 10 mins or so but one night it skipped the charge (or I missed it. The Go Pro only covers about 4-5 hours on its battery pack) and the next morning I was at 12.19 volts. I plan to revisit this after I settle a few other things and investigate a plug in Go Pro option

LeftieBiker said:

Vampire drain seems to run a whole gamut with the Leaf. Gerry represents the extreme "Good" end of that, while I'm near the other end, where occasional external charging is a good idea. And my housemate's 2020 SV+ read 12.17 on the accessory battery last week, after being stored for about three weeks...

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In this situation I think we need to look at temperature. It is well known that cold and lead acid do not get along and outside parking in Canada in Winter? There are a few places along the coast where the weather is fairly moderate but even then, typical lows are in the 30's. EVERYWHERE sees much colder weather. Not a good thing for any kind of car sitting for long periods of time.

Again, hard to advise in these "one post and gone" threads.

Dave
Sorry for the non-technical question.....to test my 12v battery after the blue light goes out, do I need a voltmeter on the battery or can I find out the voltage from the Leaf’s display?

You need a voltmeter on the battery, with the car Off for at least 15-30 minutes. When the car is On, the accessory system voltage is boosted by the DC-DC converter that charges the 12 volt battery from the pack. This is also why reading the voltage with LeafSpy is useless.

Have you broached the subject of charging with the building owners?
What did they say?

They could also install a chargepoint unit, and let chargepoint handle billing.
Or install a JuiceBox, and sign up with https://www.evmatch.com/ EV Match
(but not make the site fully visible to the public, just the residents).

Baltneu said:

Dave
Sorry for the non-technical question.....to test my 12v battery after the blue light goes out, do I need a voltmeter on the battery or can I find out the voltage from the Leaf’s display?

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I use a voltmeter. LEAF Spy used to have a 12 volt display but I found it wildly inaccurate. Not sure if I simply selected a different display option or it simply went away on its own?

After charging stops there is a 'surface charge' in the 12v battery that has to dissipate first to get an accurate reading. I wait 1 hour but perhaps less time is ok too.

I've been quite pleased with a 12v monitor system I bought through Amazon for ~ $25. It stays connected to the 12v all the time and a phone app queries the monitor via bluetooth to download data for up to a month. I end up with a continuous voltage graph.