2011 TAX TIME Questions

[Turbo3]

Form 8936 worksheet is asking for Gross vehicle weight. Is that the 4,322 lbs on driver door opening?

 

[oakwcj]

I think the Blink EVSEs are an even easier case, because there is consideration -- participation in the data collection process -- for the installation and the hardware.

That's actually the problem in a way. You're providing a service in exchange for a charger. That's sort of the typical situation where you recognize income. (Payments for participating in medical studies can be income). I don't have a conclusion BTW. Tentatively I'd say there isn't any income because the charger is only being provided to you so that you can participate in the study. IOW it's for their convenience not yours.

Ecotality retains ownership of the EVSE until the end of the contract term, which will be no earlier than December 31, 2012. There isn't any 2011 income. If you would like to calculate the difference between the value of the EVSE and the value of the data provided for the benefit of the Department of Energy, and report that as income, the IRS would probably take your money.

 

[smkettner]

Form 8936 worksheet is asking for Gross vehicle weight. Is that the 4,322 lbs on driver door opening?

Yes

 

[TLeaf]

I did a practice return using H&R Block and it has Form 8910 but not Form 8936. I think it is 8936 that we need for the current EV tax credit. (Right?)

Unless that changes, it appears that I will have to switch to Turbotax for the 2011 tax year.

It looks like the first big update from Block @ Home will come later this week with a bunch of "finalized" IRS forms. Block usually pushes out several such updates leading up into March as various forms get updated/finalized, so perhaps Form 8936 will make an appearance before I actually get around to filing. If not, manually filling out the form separately and tweaking some of the numbers within TaxCut, er.., Block at Home, shouldn't be too difficult.

Here's an interesting tax question for us WA-staters: though we did not pay sales tax on our cars, do we still get to take the deduction for large ticket item purchases? I'd guess the answer is not, but I'll be interested to look into what the tax code allows (it's already a bit optimistic when it comes to estimated sales tax amounts) and how TaxCut handles this situation..

 

[planet4ever]

As I said before, we are not talking about a rebate from a dealer or manufacturer. This is a rebate from the government. Maybe if you bought your car from the State of California you could treat it that way. ...

Do we have reading comprehension issues? I didn't say it "was" cash back. I said it was "like" cash back.
<snip>
If the transaction price is $35K then that's all the gross income that can be assigned to the transaction and the only net income attributable to the transaction is the $35K minus the dealers's cost. The rebate can't magically create $5K more net income out of thin air. It simply reduces the basis.

Yes, I think we do have reading comprehension issues. The California rebate is cash, it is not part of the transaction, and it does not reduce the basis. My point was that a non-taxable rebate as defined in Pub 525 is specifically and only "from a dealer or manufacturer". The California rebate does not qualify as non-taxable under that definition.

No different than utility rebates for PV systems. In fact in CA most installers just have you assign them the rebate. You never count the rebate as income.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. That is indeed much more comparable, so I did a bit of digging in the IRS website and found this IMRS which applies specifically to busineses, but it makes sense that the same principle would apply to individuals:

IMRS 11-0001463 – State energy rebates
Issue: A tax practitioner’s client received a Form 1099 from the state reporting a payment from the state’s home energy rebate program. The practitioner doesn’t think the payments are taxable or that the 1099 should have been issued.
Response: Many energy incentives are referred to as “rebates” even though they do not constitute rebates for federal tax purposes. Generally, only a manufacturer, distributor or installer of equipment can properly make a rebate for the costs of energy conservation equipment. Energy incentive payments from state and local governments that are includible in gross income must be reported using box 6 of Form 1099-G. There is no minimum dollar threshold for this reporting requirement.

Apparent translation: If you don't get a 1099-G you don't have to report it as income. The onus seems to be on the government agency in this case, not on the taxpayer.

[Caveat: I am not a tax lawyer.]

Ray

 

[dgpcolorado]

I did a practice return using H&R Block and it has Form 8910 but not Form 8936. I think it is 8936 that we need for the current EV tax credit. (Right?)

Unless that changes, it appears that I will have to switch to Turbotax for the 2011 tax year.

It looks like the first big update from Block @ Home will come later this week with a bunch of "finalized" IRS forms. Block usually pushes out several such updates leading up into March as various forms get updated/finalized, so perhaps Form 8936 will make an appearance before I actually get around to filing. If not, manually filling out the form separately and tweaking some of the numbers within TaxCut, er.., Block at Home, shouldn't be too difficult...

I thought about doing that, because I've been using Taxcut since it first came out in the mid '90s, but then I couldn't file electronically. Now that e-filing is free with the software it is so much more convenient than mailing a 15-19 page return. I presume that Turbotax also has e-filing as part of the software purchase.

 

[hill]

Hello all,

3 questions for the group about the 2011 taxes

1) do I have to Claim the $2,500 rebate from CA state as income somewhere?
I hope not


2) In using form 8911 to get the rebate for the EVSE, can you claim the installation costs as well as the cost of the charging unit? I am confused when it says depreciating assets.

3) Has anyone confirmed that TurboTax 2011 will support form 8911. Their website says it will, but I was hoping someone bought it and confirmed.


Thanks Again
Venk

I think you ought to add question #4

4) Do 'mynissanleaf' thread responder's answers come with a warranty if/when their advice is wrong, and the resulting error (solely) causes an audit, leading to fines, penalties and/or interest?

:lol:

.

 

[SanDust]

Ecotality retains ownership of the EVSE until the end of the contract term, which will be no earlier than December 31, 2012. There isn't any 2011 income. If you would like to calculate the difference between the value of the EVSE and the value of the data provided for the benefit of the Department of Energy, and report that as income, the IRS would probably take your money.

If you were a salesperson and won the use of a Corvette/Porshe/Leaf for a year (probably not a Leaf for a sales award, maybe a Fisker Karma) would you recognize income? Yup. No question. Ownership or whether title to equipment passes really doesn't matter. Use is enough. However, if GM/VW/Nissan give you use of the vehicle for a year so they can collect data based on real world driving then that would be a different matter. In this case technically you're being given use of the vehicle for their convenience and purposes not yours. Hence no income. Similar to medical studies. Equipment you get to participate in the study is not considered income. Money you are paid to participate is.

Apparent translation: If you don't get a 1099-G you don't have to report it as income. The onus seems to be on the government agency in this case, not on the taxpayer.

[Caveat: I am not a tax lawyer.]

If what you're saying is that it's not income if you don't get a 1099G then the CARB rebate will never be income for the simple reason that you'd never get a 1099G for a CARB rebate. As an individual you'd get a 1099G is for tax credits or rebates and the CARB rebates have nothing to do with taxes. State tax rebates shouldn't be an issue. Like state income tax refunds, these would be income for federal tax purposes since you would have previously deducted state taxes paid. Also note the use of the term "generally" with respect to the entities that can provide partial reimbursements for purchases. I've gotten checks from my health insurance company after I've paid a medical provider but those checks don't count income even though an insurance company isn't a manufacturer or dealer nor is the insurance company a service provider.

 

[Pipcecil]

OK some questions that I don't believe have been fully answered:

1) Does the tax deduction for the purchase of a new vehicle apply with the EV tax credit as well or are they mutually exclusive (i.e. I could only claim one of the other).

2) If I bought an EVSE but ended up returning it, can I still take the EVSE credit?

3) Pretty sure I know the answer (its similar to the blink issue) - as a part of eVgo I am "renting" my EVSE (i.e. don't own it). I am pretty sure I don't get to take the EVSE credit from this unit. But, on a different note, can I take the payments to the EVSE I have been making for the year for the deduction?

 

[JPWhite]

Does H&R Block include Form 8936 for the $7500 tax credit?

No. A call to their customer support verified that none of their packages include either the car tax credit or the EVSE credit.

Bill

Same here. They told me it didn't support the form. I got my money back.

 

[nogajim]

I hit a snag yesterday with Turbotax, it said that form 8936 was not ready, but after several cycles of quitting/restarting/updating, it looks like it is there now. I was bummed about no EVSE credit. May be a consolation prize for people who installed last year but didn't get their Leaf before the new year.

 

[garygid]

I have used H&R Block tax prep for perhaps 10 years, HOWEVER ...

Now, due to needing form 8936, I just ordered 2011 TurboTax Home & Business (Fed + eFile, + State (eFile extra)) on CD from Amazon for about $71, with their free shipping.

We shall see how it goes (apparently it needs SP3 on XP, and perhaps 2 GB of HD storage!).

 

[oakwcj]

I have used H&R Block tax prep for perhaps 10 years, HOWEVER ...

Now, due to needing form 8936, I just ordered 2011 TurboTax Home & Business (Fed + eFile, + State (eFile extra)) on CD from Amazon for about $71, with their free shipping.

We shall see how it goes (apparently it needs SP3 on XP, and perhaps 2 GB of HD storage!).

I've been using Turbo Tax Online for years. It's available discounted through Vanguard, Fidelity, and other financial institutions. This year I paid $42.65, which includes electronic filing of both the Federal and California returns. I don't see the purpose in buying physical media for something that I only use once a year for an hour or two.

 

[lkkms2]

I have been using TurboTax for several years. I was all ready to file early in January, but had to wait for the Form 8936 to be ready for e- filing.

Today I updated my TurboTax and it looked like it was ready to go. I went through all the steps to file electronically and get my $7500 refund. I had previously done the final review and everything seemed okay. At the last moment TurboTax said something like, "Oh, we need a little more information that we didn't need earlier. Then it started asking for the information for Form 8936".

Funny, I thought I had entered all the information it was asking for. I thought it must have somehow gotten deleted during the update. I entered the data again. And sent it off for e-file.

Then I notice that the refund amount had changed! After checking the details, TurboTax had entered the information into form 8936 twice as if I had bought two Leafs! $7500 x2!!

Too Late it was already sent!!

I called TurboTax to explain/complain about the Glitch! After checking twice with someone, the person came back and indicated that they had recently found out about the Glitch and were working on the solution They suggested I contact the IRS. I suggested the same of TurboTax.

So, be careful this doesn't happen to you until this gets fixed. I hope the IRS catches the double entry and only sends me the correct amount back. I don't enjoy doing amended returns.

 

[oakwcj]

I have been using TurboTax for several years. I was all ready to file early in January, but had to wait for the Form 8936 to be ready for e- filing.

Today I updated my TurboTax and it looked like it was ready to go. I went through all the steps to file electronically and get my $7500 refund. I had previously done the final review and everything seemed okay. At the last moment TurboTax said something like, "Oh, we need a little more information that we didn't need earlier. Then it started asking for the information for Form 8936".

Funny, I thought I had entered all the information it was asking for. I thought it must have somehow gotten deleted during the update. I entered the data again. And sent it off for e-file.

Then I notice that the refund amount had changed! After checking the details, TurboTax had entered the information into form 8936 twice as if I had bought two Leafs! $7500 x2!!

Too Late it was already sent!!

I called TurboTax to explain/complain about the Glitch! After checking twice with someone, the person came back and indicated that they had recently found out about the Glitch and were working on the solution They suggested I contact the IRS. I suggested the same of TurboTax.

So, be careful this doesn't happen to you until this gets fixed. I hope the IRS catches the double entry and only sends me the correct amount back. I don't enjoy doing amended returns.

Did this happen with the desktop software or with Turbo Tax online? When I started my return on the 24th, I received a message that the final version of Form 8936 wouldn't be available until the 26th. On the 26th, I got an email informing me that the form was now ready. I didn't get the "Glitch." I agree that filing an amended return is a drag, but Turbo Tax will do the forms for you without charge. But you still have to print them out and file by snail mail.

 

[lkkms2]

Did this happen with the desktop software or with Turbo Tax online? When I started my return on the 24th, I received a message that the final version of Form 8936 wouldn't be available until the 26th. On the 26th, I got an email informing me that the form was now ready. I didn't get the "Glitch." I agree that filing an amended return is a drag, but Turbo Tax will do the forms for you without charge. But you still have to print them out and file by snail mail.

I was using the desktop version and had started my return in early January. I had entered all the basic information for Form 8936 early on and was just waiting for the finalized version. And you?

 

[nogajim]

Then I notice that the refund amount had changed! After checking the details, TurboTax had entered the information into form 8936 twice as if I had bought two Leafs! $7500 x2!!

Yikes! I will keep an eye out for that. I will definitely pay more attention in the Final Review! Mine acts like it is ready for that now. I never got the email that said the form was ready, but it no longer updates when I quit. It seemed to handle the Georgia tax credit, too, but there is additional paperwork that we needed to complete beforehand.

 

[Yanquetino]

Here is another (semi-related) tax question. In 2010 I installed my solar array in anticipation of using it to (someday) charge my Leaf. I had previously applied for a "rebate" from the state Geological Survey for such projects. I then paid for the entire project out-of-pocket, submitted the necessary forms to prove the project was completed, and they sent me the "rebate."

I could also take a tax incentive on my state taxes for the project, but it likewise required paperwork that would delay beyond the tax deadline. Ergo, I paid my state taxes without that deduction, then after the state had processed the paperwork, I submitted an amended return to get the incentive back.

Here's the question. I have now received a 1099-MISC from the Geological Survey, claiming that they will report my "rebate" as income for 2011.

The state government has likewise sent me an "income tax refund statement" for the amount of the tax incentive --even though after the incentive I still paid taxes to the state.

Tax experts: is this normal? We are supposed to report rebates we receive as income? We are supposed to also report a deduction in our state taxes as income?

Makes me wonder if the feds are now going to send me an "income" statement for the 30% tax incentive they gave me for the solar. Sheeeesh.

 

[oakwcj]

Did this happen with the desktop software or with Turbo Tax online? When I started my return on the 24th, I received a message that the final version of Form 8936 wouldn't be available until the 26th. On the 26th, I got an email informing me that the form was now ready. I didn't get the "Glitch." I agree that filing an amended return is a drag, but Turbo Tax will do the forms for you without charge. But you still have to print them out and file by snail mail.

I was using the desktop version and had started my return in early January. I had entered all the basic information for Form 8936 early on and was just waiting for the finalized version. And you?

I was using TT online.

 

[planet4ever]

I have now received a 1099-MISC from the Geological Survey, claiming that they will report my "rebate" as income for 2011.
The state government has likewise sent me an "income tax refund statement" for the amount of the tax incentive --even though after the incentive I still paid taxes to the state.
Tax experts: is this normal? We are supposed to report rebates we receive as income? We are supposed to also report a deduction in our state taxes as income?

I'm not really a tax expert, but I know some rebates are taxable while others are not. The laws are complex and varied. If you get a 1099, though, the IRS got one too, and you must count it as income.

Ray