2018 LEAF Vs Tesla Model 3 SR: A Comparison Table for the USA

[DaveinOlyWA]

Agree, the hatch is a major plus. For us that is one of the key things keeping the Model 3 on the fence. With our Plug-in Prius and gen-1 Leaf the utility of the hatch was quickly established.

That said, in person, the trunk of the Model 3 is actually quite spacious. As long as one of our two vehicles remains a hatch, we may pick the Model 3 to be one of our household vehicles.

Have to agree with Tesla trunk. MUCH more useful than I expected it to be based on specs. However, it does illustrate the greater need for a hitch over the LEAF. Having a hitch on the LEAF is very useful. Its almost required on a T3

 

[SageBrush]

Agree, the hatch is a major plus. For us that is one of the key things keeping the Model 3 on the fence. With our Plug-in Prius and gen-1 Leaf the utility of the hatch was quickly established.

That said, in person, the trunk of the Model 3 is actually quite spacious. As long as one of our two vehicles remains a hatch, we may pick the Model 3 to be one of our household vehicles.

Have to agree with Tesla trunk. MUCH more useful than I expected it to be based on specs. However, it does illustrate the greater need for a hitch over the LEAF. Having a hitch on the LEAF is very useful. Its almost required on a T3

A hitch is *great* for any car. A 3rd party hitch is now sold for the Model 3 but it has so far as I know has not been blessed by Tesla. I'm looking forward to resolution by Tesla.

 

[scottf200]

Stealth EcoHitch https://torkliftcentral.com/x7373-2
Stealth EcoHitch Vid youtube.com/watch?v=nDtgQYxkpxY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDtgQYxkpxY

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Agree, the hatch is a major plus. For us that is one of the key things keeping the Model 3 on the fence. With our Plug-in Prius and gen-1 Leaf the utility of the hatch was quickly established.

That said, in person, the trunk of the Model 3 is actually quite spacious. As long as one of our two vehicles remains a hatch, we may pick the Model 3 to be one of our household vehicles.

Have to agree with Tesla trunk. MUCH more useful than I expected it to be based on specs. However, it does illustrate the greater need for a hitch over the LEAF. Having a hitch on the LEAF is very useful. Its almost required on a T3

A hitch is *great* for any car. A 3rd party hitch is now sold for the Model 3 but it has so far as I know has not been blessed by Tesla. I'm looking forward to resolution by Tesla.

Torklift Central is a top notch company with outstanding products and VERY pro EV AND local!!...to me.

 

[jlv]

At least it won't have the corrosion problem that has appeared with their Model S hitch (due to the aluminum body).

 

[jlv]

CHAdeMO station within 200 miles of my house... doesn't exist.
Tesla fast charging station within 200 miles of my house... doesn't exist.

I don't know where your house is, but you list it as being in Gunnison, CO.

The SC in Poncha Springs opened this year, and it's just 65 miles from Gunnison. So you'll have to cross this one statement off!

There look to be 3 CHAdeMOs in Aspen, and those appear to be 145 miles away (routing through Salida), so you probably should cross that statement off, too. Of course, they might not be useful unless you want to go to Aspen and back.

 

[IssacZachary]

CHAdeMO station within 200 miles of my house... doesn't exist.
Tesla fast charging station within 200 miles of my house... doesn't exist.

I don't know where your house is, but you list it as being in Gunnison, CO.

The SC in Poncha Springs opened this year, and it's just 65 miles from Gunnison. So you'll have to cross this one statement off!

There look to be 3 CHAdeMOs in Aspen, and those appear to be 145 miles away (routing through Salida), so you probably should cross that statement off, too. Of course, they might not be useful unless you want to go to Aspen and back.

Yes. I was being a bit dogmatic and hyperbolic. But I honestly didn't know that the Poncha Springs charging station was now open. Great place to put one!

I didn't count Aspen because it's in an odd place out of the way that's not in route to any major city. And if I did go through Salida to get there I'd have to go over Independence pass, which is very treacherous, steep and closed most of the year due to snow. So yes, it may be within 200 miles. But the chances of it being at all useful are slim.

 

[GRA]

Consider how long Kayenta

OK. How long past the 'planned for' date ?

I forget now, but it's been on the list for at least 2016 and 2017, and maybe 2015 too. I'm too lazy to check the Tesla SC thread to be sure. Then there's Ft. Stockton, which has been in 'permit' status on supercharge.info for at least 544 days, and that's well after Tesla said they would have one there. The only other option in the area would be Balmorhea, and that's even further (160 vice 108 miles) from Ozona. Pecos on I-20 has been in 'permit' status for only 205 days, and both are needed to connect to Van Horn. Gaylord, MI was only announced last year and has been 'under construction' for 8 months now, and they just had a transformer delivered. So, extended delays have been common. IIRR you could also add Kalispell, MT to the list - ISTR that goes back at least 3 years now. [Edit]] Seems like Kalispell first appeared on Tesla's coming soon SC map in Dec. 2016, so that one's relatively recent. I-94, OTOH, has been on the 2015 and subsequent maps.

 

[SageBrush]

Consider how long Kayenta

OK. How long past the 'planned for' date ?

I forget now, but it's been on the list for at least 2016 and 2017, and maybe 2015 too.

Kayenta was first mentioned in a 'late 2017' plan. That has been delayed to 2018

FUD and exceptions aside, a more valuable piece of information would be average delay with one or two SD.
My casual following of US SC installations is that 95% are in place within 12 months after initial plan date.
Whiners will always find the tidbit that supports their dyspeptic personality; I very much appreciate that Tesla has every intention to follow through on their promises, and I accept that their timelines are usually optimistic.

 

[iPlug]

Are we talking about Kayenta, AZ?

From this Jan 17, 2015 post:

It “appears” that Kayenta is on the map for a Supercharger in 2016.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-kayenta-az.41165/

 

[GRA]

Are we talking about Kayenta, AZ?

From this Jan 17, 2015 post:

It “appears” that Kayenta is on the map for a Supercharger in 2016.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-kayenta-az.41165/

That squares with my memory of when it first appeared on the map, back when I was following SC plans and deployments on TMC and supercharge.info a lot closer than I do now, and people had been requesting one there well prior to that.

 

[GRA]

OK. How long past the 'planned for' date ?

I forget now, but it's been on the list for at least 2016 and 2017, and maybe 2015 too.

Kayenta was first mentioned in a 'late 2017' plan. That has been delayed to 2018

FUD and exceptions aside, a more valuable piece of information would be average delay with one or two SD.
My casual following of US SC installations is that 95% are in place within 12 months after initial plan date.
Whiners will always find the tidbit that supports their dyspeptic personality; I very much appreciate that Tesla has every intention to follow through on their promises, and I accept that their timelines are usually optimistic.

Sure, they usually follow through eventually; the question is why do they consistently over-promise and under-deliver, when it's completely unnecessary and reduces confidence in everything they say? We all know that Tesla's definition of 'coming soon' is very different from most people's, but 3+ years is excessive by anyone's standards - as to when Kayenta first appeared on the SC map, see iPlug's post following yours.

 

[SageBrush]

the question is why do they consistently over-promise and under-deliver

That is your spin.
Their history is that that they keep their promises, albeit often with delay

As for Kayenta,
The thread posted starts of with

It “appears” that Kayenta is on the map for a Supercharger in 2016.

Kayenta has been the source of SC rumors ever since a vehicle with a Tesla logo was parked there for a while. Actual Tesla declaration of SC siting plans is recent.
Once again, you are letting your biases take precedence over facts.

 

[GRA]

the question is why do they consistently over-promise and under-deliver

That is your spin.
Their history is that that they keep their promises, albeit often with delay

Which is over-promising and under-delivering when their promises include a timeframe. That's not spin, it's fact. As opposed to under-promising and over-delivering by announcing only a fraction of the sites they have planned, and meeting or exceeding their publicly announced target.

As for Kayenta,
The thread posted starts of with

It “appears” that Kayenta is on the map for a Supercharger in 2016.

Kayenta has been the source of SC rumors ever since a vehicle with a Tesla logo was parked there for a while. Actual Tesla declaration of SC siting plans is recent.
Once again, you are letting your biases take precedence over facts.

No, "it appears" was based on a 'coming soon' icon appearing on the recently updated SC map. Page was too far west, and there's nothing else in that particular area that had been asked for (at least at that time, and maybe still).

 

[SageBrush]

the question is why do they consistently over-promise and under-deliver

That is your spin.
Their history is that that they keep their promises, albeit often with delay

Which is over-promising and under-delivering when their promises include a timeframe. That's not spin

It is spin since it implies non delivery.

Tesla delivers, sometimes with delay. That is good enough for me.

 

[GRA]

That is your spin.
Their history is that that they keep their promises, albeit often with delay

Which is over-promising and under-delivering when their promises include a timeframe. That's not spin

It is spin since it implies non delivery.

Tesla delivers, sometimes with delay. That is good enough for me.

Then we have a very different definition of what over-promising and under-delivering means. Here's an example of my definition:

A common example of over-promising in a business environment is,

When we are requested to produce a report (or something), are asked to suggest a date and time the report will be given AND to which we reply for example, “By the close of business today!” (This assumes that actual delivery will, in fact, not occur by the COB.)

Through this exchange, we know that the following has occurred,

• a request was made for a report,
  an option on delivery was offered,
  a commitment delivery was made, and
  an expectation was established.

At this point there is only one meaningful outcome: deliver the report on time or earlier. No other choices will be deemed acceptable and will be considered an excuse if offered. Why the hate? When we accepted the task and set the time for delivery it was on our terms and at our discretion. Failing to meet our deadline demonstrates poor time management and a failure to meet commitments. These are serious integrity and character issues.

When we tell others what we think they want to hear in the business environment, we are setting up a straw house (re: Three Little Pigs) which will blow over at the least provocation. When we continually over-promise and under-deliver, we are establishing our character. . . .

The success of the individual is rooted in their integrity; your character influences your integrity. The phrase, ‘my word in my bond’, demands integrity and character. So when we over-promise and under-deliver we are broadcasting to others, ‘my word is meaningless and cannot be relied upon.’

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/over-promise-under-deliver-negative-effect-saying-you-dr-james-n-

It's undeniable that this pattern exactly describes Tesla's performance through the years, and it's particularly egregious since no one was pressuring them to announce unrealistic schedules; they did that voluntarily.

As a result, they have zero credibility whenever they announce when a new product will appear. It doesn't matter that I think so, because I'm not an investor nor am I a potential customer for any of their current products. But it does matter to investors and potential customers, who are the people who have been keeping Tesla afloat for years, and they are increasingly less willing to put up with it. Add to that the fact that Tesla will soon have real competition for most of their products, and this becomes a major problem.

 

[SageBrush]

Add to that the fact that Tesla will soon have real competition for most of their products, and this becomes a major problem.

LOL
Excellent way to end this conversation, with true over promise and under delivery.

 

[GRA]

Add to that the fact that Tesla will soon have real competition for most of their products, and this becomes a major problem.

LOL
Excellent way to end this conversation, with true over promise and under delivery.

You don't think Porsche, Audi, Jaguar etc. will have Tesla-competitive BEVs out by the end of 2020, as they've announced? The I-Pace is due to arrive later this year, and customers could place orders starting a couple of months ago. Even if they were to slip until Q1 of 2019, that's still far better than Tesla has managed with any car introduction. In Europe, high-power CCS is being deployed now, and that's starting to happen here as well. Tesla has a lead, but that lead is shrinking, and the legacy car makers know far more about getting a car ready for mass production than Tesla. Tesla has a substantially greater lead in terms of high-power charging infrastructure, but that too will be less and less of an advantage.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would never buy any Jag EV and my guess is they won't be big competition to Tesla buyers. No thanks to Porsche for me with the high repair costs and their terrible plan for charging. I don't see any serious competitor products for Tesla yet, there may be some but I don't see a big threat other than lack of production. The competition will be low priced LR EVs.

 

[SageBrush]

Add to that the fact that Tesla will soon have real competition for most of their products, and this becomes a major problem.

LOL
Excellent way to end this conversation, with true over promise and under delivery.

You don't think Porsche, Audi, Jaguar etc. will have Tesla-competitive BEVs out by the end of 2020, as they've announced? The I-Pace is due to arrive later this year, and customers could place orders starting a couple of months ago. Even if they were to slip until Q1 of 2019, that's still far better than Tesla has managed with any car introduction. In Europe, high-power CCS is being deployed now, and that's starting to happen here as well. Tesla has a lead, but that lead is shrinking, and the legacy car makers know far more about getting a car ready for mass production than Tesla.

Can you REALLY not see your double standard ?

3-4 years in the future for Porsche is "soon" in your eyes,
While months to a year delay for a Tesla product is a matter of deep worry for you.

I don't know if your fav manufacturers will ever compete with Tesla, but I know this: owning a Gigafactory is a pre-requisite. Until then they may produce 1k - 30k cars a year while Tesla will produce 10k a week. That is not competition.