A very sad day in Tucson, today.

[turbo2ltr]

This is a tragedy. Lets respect that and keep the finger pointing to ourselves. One map with a crosshair on it didn't cause this guy to shoot a bunch of innocent people. This person obviously had mental issues, and now there are reports that he might not have been so right-winged after all. Personally I don't care what he was other than someone that needed help, didn't get it, and made decisions that caused a lot of suffering.


And don't assume that just because this is an EV related message board that we are all lefties.

 

[LEAFfan]

One map with a crosshair on it didn't cause this guy to shoot a bunch of innocent people.

No, it didn't directly cause this guy to shoot her and other people, BUT by Palin using cross hairs and targets and the kind of language she used such as reload and other words similar, it definitely can put those kind of ideas into someone's head that isn't that stable. If I were Palin, I would go into hiding because her political career is over.
Btw, there was a report last night that Gabby was talking with her family in the hospital room, so that was great news! CNN and NPR had reported shortly after the shootings that Gabby had died...very unprofessional and irresponsible reporting.

 

[Fabio]

I had no illusion of that since there are a few climate change deniers in this board.
However, is condemning violent rhetoric and allusion to the use of arms against political opponent a "leftie" value?

In the use of violent rhetoric (also with climate change) in the old Europe both left and right are more evolved than here in the US.

This is a tragedy. Lets respect that and keep the finger pointing to ourselves. One map with a crosshair on it didn't cause this guy to shoot a bunch of innocent people. This person obviously had mental issues, and now there are reports that he might not have been so right-winged after all. Personally I don't care what he was other than someone that needed help, didn't get it, and made decisions that caused a lot of suffering.


And don't assume that just because this is an EV related message board that we are all lefties.

 

[evnow]

And don't assume that just because this is an EV related message board that we are all lefties.

Are you saying not using violent rhetoric is a leftie idea ? No - it is a democratic (note small d) idea - the idea that differences are settled using the ballot rather than the bullet.

I hope this will be a wakeup call for Palin and her fellow wingers to cool down the war rhetoric.

ps : I can see why the wingers want to make this an isolated incident - not connected at all with the highly violent & volatile atmosphere Palin & her ilk want to maintain purely for electoral benefit. BTW, I've seen some such war talk even in liberal sites like dailykos - and i don't support that either.

 

[evnow]

This person obviously had mental issues, and now there are reports that he might not have been so right-winged after all.

Looks like right wing - an extreme right winger.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html

WASHINGTON -- Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged shooter of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others on Saturday, may have ties to anti-Semitic, anti-immigration hate group American Renaissance, according to a leaked memo from the Department of Homeland Security.

It's unclear whether Loughner maintains a direct connection to the group, however, "strong suspicion is being directed" at American Renaissance in the wake of the group being referenced in Loughner's Myspace and YouTube videos, according to the memo, which was obtained by Fox News.

So, may be a combination of Palin & Arizona Republican (immigration) rhetoric ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/arizona-shooting-news_n_806397.html

On Saturday Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik called Arizona "the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry." Today the sheriff continued on the same theme:
"I think that when the rhetoric about hatred, about mistrust of government, about paranoia of how government operates and to try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, has impact on people especially who are unbalanced personalities to begin with."
He also called his state "the tombstone of the United States of America."

 

[AndyH]

And don't assume that just because this is an EV related message board that we are all lefties.

Let's not stereotype in either direction, Turbo. Recognizing that inciting the public to violence isn't 'left' or 'righty' or any other arbitrary label.

The nation's caustic political climate has become a suspect of sorts in the rampage that left six dead and a lawmaker critically injured in Arizona. Already, appeals are being heard to tone down the rhetoric.

http://www.ksat.com/politics/26415881/detail.html

Let's not continue to feed the nation's caustic political climate. And no - declaring war on anything makes it worse - it doesn't make it go away.

 

[evnow]

I think that the FBI is keeping a close eye on the typical
militia types and know them well. One unhinged kid is
like a needle in a haystack.

Apparently not too well - see the above post.

I'm amazed that contributing to a foreign terrorist organization can put someone behind jail - while domestic terrorists (like KKK and other violent racist groups) can openly operate.

Edit : A possible accomplice. So, not just a lonely gunman. (update : Second man has been ruled out)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/arizona-shooting-news_n_806397.html#89_photo-of-possible-second-suspect-released

The Pima County Sheriff's Department has released a photograph of a man they believe may be associated with Jared Lee Loughner: "He is described as a Caucasian male, approximately 40-50 years old, dark hair and was last seen wearing blue jeans and a dark blue jacket."

Definitely the hate groups are not being kept track of.

 

[hodad66]

Definitely the hate groups are not being kept track of.

Sure they are... FOX NEWS has great ratings....... :shock:

 

[malloryk]

What a tragedy this is. I used to live not too far from there when I went to school in Tucson. I didn't know Gabby but from your description, Azrich, she sounds like one of the good ones. My heart is breaking for the victim's family and friends.

 

[JasonT]

Sometimes this town seems a lot smaller than it really is. A friend of mine pointed out to me that I went to the same high school as Giffords - she was two years ahead of me. I hope she makes it through OK. I can't imagine what the families of the dead are going through.

The one thing I hope from comes this tragedy is that perhaps it will diffuse some of the vitriol from both sides of the fence. The anger... the accusations... it just isn't necessary. Pretty much no matter what your leanings are, you want a better life for yourself and a better life for the country. It's just a question of how to get there that seems to be the conflict, and it really should be able to be handled in a civil manner.

 

[AndyH]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

 

[Boomer23]

I watched the memorial this evening, Rich. I couldn't stop the tears from coming at several points, most especially when the President spoke about Christina Green and her parents were shown. The losses are so wrenching in personal human terms.

 

[AndyH]

I was there full time as well, gents, Kleenex at the ready.

I really enjoyed calling Tucson home for a time in the 1990s and have been back a number of times since. It is the strangest thing, but the city really does have a small town/community feel. I miss it a great deal.

Very nicely done, Tucson. Bravo, Mr. President. Blessings all.

 

[Azrich]

Tucson is healing slowly. I'm not sure how the families can hold up, especially Christina's. She was a student in the school district where I teach. I know several teachers at her school - this has been very draining for them.

My six classes (6th graders) talked about it on Monday - lots of fears, anger, confusion, questions. Several older students were in the parking lot a distance from the shooting, but saw it. One father of one of my students was at the grocery 20 minutes before it happened. That family feels blessed he is home safe. Many students knew someone who was there. Three students knew the shooter or his parents. It has touched many people.

I tried to go to the memorial service tonight. By the time I could get there, the arena was full. I decided to go home and watch it. Yes, tissues were needed. Seeing Daniel Hernandez, a young, gay intern being honored, sitting next to the President was amazing. He was courageous in his actions and care of Gabby. He is a hero in my book, even though he doesn't want that label.

The descriptions of Christina and what she wanted to become - first female major league player - were touching. Whenever I hear of a young life that ends, I wonder how the world would have been different if they had lived. So senseless.

The shooter's parent's are devastated. The past several years have been a real battle for them with their son.

To hear that Gabby opened her eyes this evening was very exciting. On CNN they talked to the two representatives that were in her room with her husband, Mark, talking to her about wanting her better so they can meet in New Hampshire in the summer and go out drinking beer. Her eyes opened in slits. Mark asked her to open her eyes several times. She opened them fully and focused on Mark. He told her to touch his wedding ring and she did, then she started rubbing Mark's arm and her eyes closed. At that point the doctors told them she needed to rest, but the doctors were very pleased with this improvement.

Thanks for listening. Richard

 

[Ready2plugin]

Richard, Thank you for sharing the story from someone so close to the situation. I have two girls, the oldest who is 4, loves dancing, swimming and baseball, just like Christina so everytime I see her or hear her story makes this grown man cry. I hope that something good can be found in this, and that we all become a little kinder, braver and more loving like so many that we lost. I didn't know any of these people, but hearing their stories, I do feel their spirts.