Battery Replacement Program Details

[KJD]

thanks KJD. That is an important statement from Brian. It still sounds like I should wait until Late 2014 if I go with Leaf.

Pete, would you consider taking a 2-year lease out instead of purchasing the LEAF outright this year? From your earlier posts it would appear that you are located in Basking Ridge, NJ. Generally speaking, I would not be concerned about battery longevity in New Jersey, and would only consider waiting for the new battery if I preferred a purchase over a lease.

I agree with this, the 24 month lease is the way to go. Not everyone has problems with the battery and those that do are getting close to the third year of use.

It also appears that the EV market will change for the better in the next 2 years.

 

[epete]

thanks KJD. That is an important statement from Brian. It still sounds like I should wait until Late 2014 if I go with Leaf.

Pete, would you consider taking a 2-year lease out instead of purchasing the LEAF outright this year? From your earlier posts it would appear that you are located in Basking Ridge, NJ. Generally speaking, I would not be concerned about battery longevity in New Jersey, and would only consider waiting for the new battery if I preferred a purchase over a lease.

I agree with this, the 24 month lease is the way to go. Not everyone has problems with the battery and those that do are getting close to the third year of use.

It also appears that the EV market will change for the better in the next 2 years.

I have never leased before and my preference is always to buy, however in this case, this thread indicates to me that leasing would transfer the risk back to Nissan (at a cost). And yes in a couple years there will be better options. But then again maybe the federal rebate and NJ Tax Free options will no longer be available. Its a toss up.

 

[thankyouOB]

why throw $200 a month times 24 ~about 5k away?
the only argument that i can see is if it and the cost of electricity equals what you would spend on gasoline with an ICE.

 

[surfingslovak]

I have never leased before and my preference is always to buy, however in this case, this thread indicates to me that leasing would transfer the risk back to Nissan (at a cost). And yes in a couple years there will be better options. But then again maybe the federal rebate and NJ Tax Free options will no longer be available. Its a toss up.

Understood, this was my first lease also. Depending on your commute and other driving, I would advise to get an EV as soon as possible to realize substantial savings on gasoline. The technology is improving quickly, and you might find yourself not wanting to drive a conventional vehicle anymore. It is that addicting, much better experience in my opinion. It's anyone's guess if the subsidies will be in place in two years. Personally, I don't think that they are going away. Additionally, EV manufacturers are clearly working to make this technology more affordable. This was discussed in another thread, but depending on how the battery situation evolves, you could either buy out the lease at the end, thereby locking in all subsidies. Alternatively, you could acquire a new EV while the subsidies are still in place, and either trade the old one in or find someone to ride out the lease. It does seem like a stretch, I realize, but where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Stoaty]

Personally, I don't think that they are not going away.

So you think they are going away?

 

[surfingslovak]

So you think they are going away?

I fixed that, thanks! I don't believe that the federal tax credit will go away under an Obama administration. It was originally established under the Bush administration, I believe, and won't begin to phase out until a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles. State subsidies are anyone's guess. California cut the CVRP in half in 2012. I think New Jersey does not collect sales tax on EVs, much like Washington State.

The credit begins to phase out for a manufacturer’s vehicles when at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009). For additional information see Notice 2009-89.

I wouldn't want to go off on a tangent in this thread, and perhaps this is best discussed elsewhere. My recommendation is to lease if you had any concerns about battery longevity and the replacement program. Depending on your personal situation, the gas savings could help justify the expense of the lease.

 

[epete]

I wouldn't want to go off on a tangent in this thread

Agreed, sorry for the diversion. The main point is that until a formal battery policy is put in place (that is fair), my desire of purchasing the Leaf has dropped and since leasing bypasses the problem, I should also state that I have always preferred purchasing over leasing.

 

[kubel]

I should also state that I have always preferred purchasing over leasing.

I was the same way. One option is to lease and buy out at the end of the lease. This was my plan until I discovered:

1) How overinflated the residual value is.
2) How lousy the battery is.
3) How inadequate the battery replacement program is.

Leasing is still the best option because you can get the full credit and you have a very limited commitment. My suggestion would be to lease and see what happens.

 

[surfingslovak]

Interestingly, couple of prospects asked BMW representatives at the IAA in Frankfurt yesterday how much a replacement battery for the i3 might cost, should they need to buy one in the future. Here is the response they have received (corrected machine translation is below):

Die neue Batterie wird bei BMW (incl. 250,- Euro für Aus- und Einbau) ca. 10000,- Euro kosten. Es wird damit gerechnet/darauf gehofft, daß sich der Preis in den nächsten 5 Jahren halbiert. Anmerkung von mir: Es wurde nicht vom Austauschwert gesprochen. Es ist ja angedacht, die Akkus dann einer Zweitverwendung zuzuführen, sie würden also mit einer entsprechend reduzierten Nenn-Kapazität weiterverkauft werden können und das könnte man dann ja von den 10000,- Euro abziehen. Wenn das denn tatsächlich so gehandhabt wird mit den alten Akkus...

The new battery may be obtained from BMW for about 10,000 euro (incl. 250 euro for removal and installation). It is expected / hoped that this price will be halved over the next 5 years. Note from me: the trade-in value was not mentioned or addressed. It's being considered, and should the battery find a secondary market, and can be resold at its reduced nominal capacity, then, yes, this might be subtracted from the 10,000 EUR. If this is how old batteries will be actually handled ...

Additionally, both VW and BMW are reportedly going to offer a capacity warranty for their batteries. If true, this is good news. It might not have happened if Nissan did not offer a similar warranty for the LEAF last December. There was some discussion on the German forum why there were such significant differences between the number of kilometers covered by the respective OEMs. The BMW reps seemed concerned about quick charging. Sound familiar?

 

[mwalsh]

A lot of you will not know that the advisory committee met again in Japan this week. Why did you not know? Well, because it was pretty well on the "down low", at least so far as we were concerned. The only reason I knew is because one of it's members was talking his trip up on FaceBook.

So why, pray tell, were the members not on here in advance of the trip, asking us to voice our ongoing concerns or any new ones as preparation for the discussion there? Because, if it ever was about us (which is pretty doubtful in my mind), my opinion is that it no longer is.

As such, it is also my opinion that we should no longer be supportive of this group or any of it's aims until such a time it proves that it is still advocating for us with Nissan.

 

[TomT]

I have a hard time disagreeing with your conclusions, Mike... I knew but only because I asked a question of Chelsea a couple of weeks ago and it was peripherally mentioned in the answer that they were going to Japan...

A lot of you will not know that the advisory committee met again in Japan this week.

 

[thankyouOB]

A lot of you will not know that the advisory committee met again in Japan this week. Why did you not know? Well, because it was pretty well on the "down low", at least so far as we were concerned. The only reason I knew is because one of it's members was talking his trip up on FaceBook.

So why, pray tell, were the members not on here in advance of the trip, asking us to voice our ongoing concerns or any new ones as preparation for the discussion there? Because, if it ever was about us (which is pretty doubtful in my mind), my opinion is that it no longer is.

As such, it is also my opinion that we should no longer be supportive of this group or any of it's aims until such a time it proves that it is still advocating for us with Nissan.

i find that a reasonable and supportable statement by mike.
i agree.

end the SYB program as the only option for battery replacement. many many many of us dont want to lease a battery.

 

[91040]

Possibly an overly hasty conclusion. Members of that group are active on this forum. Are there issues or opinions that are not voiced here?
It is the "silent majority" that should be worried. :lol:

 

[jhm614]

A lot of you will not know that the advisory committee met again in Japan this week. Why did you not know? Well, because it was pretty well on the "down low", at least so far as we were concerned. The only reason I knew is because one of it's members was talking his trip up on FaceBook.

So why, pray tell, were the members not on here in advance of the trip, asking us to voice our ongoing concerns or any new ones as preparation for the discussion there? Because, if it ever was about us (which is pretty doubtful in my mind), my opinion is that it no longer is.

As such, it is also my opinion that we should no longer be supportive of this group or any of it's aims until such a time it proves that it is still advocating for us with Nissan.

I'm willing to give the advisory committee the benefit of the doubt. Based on some of the members posts here, they are still asking the tough questions. (Like you, I had noticed the next committee meeting in a blog post a couple of weeks ago and asked a couple of questions. Not sure if they will get answered but I feel like they will get asked.)

I'm still impressed that a big corporation cares enough about the users of its products to do things like the advisory committee. Nissan isn't perfect but they are definitely trying.

 

[epete]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

 

[mwalsh]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

I think we all appreciate your concerns. However, for me, it is way more disheartening to see friends from here (and on Facebook) turn away from the LEAF in favor of other marques, even myself when it came to our second EV. Most often either Tesla or Chevy (for the Volt, more often than not). The amount of brand goodwill and loyalty that's just been pissed away simply astounds me.

 

[evchels]

A lot of you will not know that the advisory committee met again in Japan this week. Why did you not know? Well, because it was pretty well on the "down low", at least so far as we were concerned. The only reason I knew is because one of it's members was talking his trip up on FaceBook.

So why, pray tell, were the members not on here in advance of the trip, asking us to voice our ongoing concerns or any new ones as preparation for the discussion there? Because, if it ever was about us (which is pretty doubtful in my mind), my opinion is that it no longer is.

There was no specific effort to keep this trip a secret; the contents of the group's discussions and meetings with Nissan are under NDA, but the fact that they happen is not. No one was asked not to mention the trip.

Additionally, most of the members in the group were selected because this forum community insisted they would best represent the larger driver group, in part because they are heavy participants here and therefore in touch with issues and concerns on an ongoing basis. The members are also all known and accessible- so community members can and do contact us behind the scenes as they see fit.

I hear you on the fact that we could have instigated a specific thread, and I try to do that when there's a topic or agenda item that hasn't already been fleshed out in these pages and elsewhere. In this case the agenda was much more general, and there was no reason to believe there were burning topics not already being discussed here and elsewhere. But I will keep this in mind in the future.

As such, it is also my opinion that we should no longer be supportive of this group or any of it's aims until such a time it proves that it is still advocating for us with Nissan.

I find this position perplexing, and am sorry to hear it. Regardless, we will continue to support the community, whether or not you support us in return.

 

[thankyouOB]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

I think we all appreciate your concerns. However, for me, it is way more disheartening to see friends from here (and on Facebook) turn away from the LEAF in favor of other marques, even myself when it came to our second EV. Most often either Tesla or Chevy (for the Volt, more often than not). The amount of brand goodwill and loyalty that's just been pissed away simply astounds me.

what mike said.
it is sad.

i am glad that i can still use the car for my commute. today, with the cold overnight temps, i would not have been able to get home from work, except that i can now charge at work.
i am cheered on, however, by the growing interest in EVs and the growing EVSE-for-hire network.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

I don't understand why not having news about a LEAF battery lease makes you want to lease a Honda FIT instead. Seems unrelated or maybe an overreaction. The Honda FIT is a pure compliance vehicle. You won't be seeing much improvement there nor active marketing etc. They only want to sell the minimum number they have to for CARB. I'd rather support Nissan who (other than Tesla) is the only one making a serious attempt to make and sell EVs.

 

[mwalsh]

what mike said.
it is sad.

If it makes you feel any better at all, I was talking to the Electronaut In Chief yesterday, and BMW has been about on par with Nissan when it comes to the Active E.