Battery Replacement Program Details

[kubel]

I hear you can get a new battery for about 21k (after a federal tax credit). It comes with a few free spare parts...

That's pretty much how I look at it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I hear you can get a new battery for about 21k (after a federal tax credit). It comes with a few free spare parts...

[/quote]

hey you might have something there! Buy a 2nd LEAF, replace your battery, use old battery as backup to your solar and sell the parts that are left over. have you priced the inverter, charger, etc?? I think they are made of Gold!

 

[surfingslovak]

22kWh, IIRR 18.8 kWh is usable.

Yes, Guy, thank you, that's close enough. The rated capacity in the i3 is 21.6 kWh, and the usable capacity is 18.8 kWh. The latter, much like the price of the battery itself, is something Nissan did not disclose.


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[klapauzius]

Hypothetical:

Overnight, someone jacks up my car and steals the traction battery. What would my insurance company do? The replacement part cannot be bought, so will it be totaled? Would a battery from a wreck be used or does the car become an expensive lawn decoration?

Any other possibilities?

oh let me guess, "Electro" is stealing battery packs to gear up for his assault against Spiderman right?

Well, eventually people will be in need of "fresh" batteries, so they might pop up on ebay or craigs-list, as long as Nissan is refusing to sell them...People have been stealing copper cables from HV transformers and such....

 

[69800]

Sorry to say but Nissan is not quite being honest with us.

Quote: Weighing feedback from current and potential owners, we found that most favored a monthly payment approach.
Quote: Q. Why is there no outright price for a swap?
A. There are two main reasons we decided against releasing an outright battery price: 1. Customer research steered us a different direction;

I want to ad my 2 cents. I would like to see the data from this feedback. I do not believe this for one second. Look at the poll of owners would prefer a a purchase vs a lease of a new battery. THE VAST MAJORITY! So where did Nissan get their data???? Obviously not from the owners. I do not want to make payments to anyone!!!!! If my battery need to be replaced and I cant buy one somewhere, this car is GONE! Also you know that if your payment is late or lost Nissan will follow in Renault's footsteps and shut of your car until they receive payment whether you are at fault or the bank is. If any aftermarket company ever offer a replacement battery I can buy, I will. I do not want to be beholden to Nissan for the rest of my life. I might add.. I keep my cars forever. :?:

quote: and 2. the evolving costs of batteries over time make it impractical to do so.

This is also BS. We all know that costs change and therefore the prices will fluctuate (usually down like Prius) and that is ok. We do not expect a cold hard price that lasts forever. No product operates this way.

 

[thankyouOB]

well said, Idaho.
they have never disclosed any polling or market data.
around here, we call it the SYB (Steal Your Battery Program) Nissan takes it, pays you nothing for it and in return leases you another for $100 a month forever.

to top it off, they didnt tell you this when they sold you the car.
it is a newly announced program.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sorry to say but Nissan is not quite being honest with us.



I want to ad my 2 cents. I would like to see the data from this feedback.

This maybe an alien concept to you but I can assure you its rather common. Businesses pay for this feedback and pay A LOT. It is quite common to keep the results of the feedback secret, guarded at the level of the deepest corporate secrets.

One can guess but not hard to understand. Would you pay tens of thousands or more (sometimes a LOT more) then publish it to the World?? well you could and would save your competition a lot of money now would it?

So ya; your request? not gonna happen. as it is, what info we were told about was argued vigorously and no doubt there are some that thought what little we were told was a mistake.

 

[TimLee]

... what info we were told about was argued vigorously and no doubt there are some that thought what little we were told was a mistake.

If the theory that Ghosn pushed the production of the LEAF forward against the input of the technical people is correct, I really don't understand why they have ever said much about anything to anyone at any time.

If they knew the claims of an average 80% capacity after five years, and 70% capacity after ten years were inaccurate; it certainly was truly stupid to make false statements (no matter how much they were couched in statements about being average and dependent on driver behaviour and conditions).

And it similarly seems really stupid to have talked to a small group of people in Phoenix this summer and given information about the upcoming "Hot" battery, which tacitly acknowledges that the battery design in the first 100,000 LEAFs is basically defective.

It appears that the desire to build market momentum initially, and to quell market dissatisfaction after capacity degradation was recognized to be a problem, may have resulted in quite a few truly stupid statements by Nissan.

 

[69800]

QUOTE:This maybe an alien concept to you but I can assure you its rather common. Businesses pay for this feedback and pay A LOT. It is quite common to keep the results of the feedback secret, guarded at the level of the deepest corporate secrets.

Why you you ask someone in a poll who has never had nor really thought about buying and electric car????? You can only ask an owner to get an accurate view on the subject..

Any body can say they took a poll....prove it!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

... what info we were told about was argued vigorously and no doubt there are some that thought what little we were told was a mistake.

If the theory that Ghosn pushed the production of the LEAF forward against the input of the technical people is correct, I really don't understand why they have ever said much about anything to anyone at any time.

there "could" be a product out there that had the full blessing of the engineering dept so not gonna say it doesnt happen but betting its very rare.

can only speak for situations i was familiar with and this was all after the fact information but most products by the time they get to the consumer is a massive compromise. rarely is the final product anything the engineering team would be proud of.

they submit great products only to the final result hacked away by finance, manufacturing and marketing. that is simply how its done. not sure how much trouble i can get into with an NDA to a former employer nearly 20 years ago but... you might be surprised if you knew everything there was to know about your computer...

 

[thankyouOB]

honestly, do we know anyone who has said he/she would PREFER to rent a battery at $100 a month and give away their existing battery for free?

maybe i missed it. i know there are some outlier circumstances wherein that would make sense. and, of course, we have not been given a battery sale PRICE to run against the per-month figure. even if that price would be believable; nissan could price it however they want, win, lose, draw, ranging down as technology improved.

 

[Nubo]

...Look at the poll of owners would prefer a a purchase vs a lease of a new battery. THE VAST MAJORITY! So where did Nissan get their data???? Obviously not from the owners. ...

You have to look at the way the questions were couched. When you're looking for a certain type of result, it's pretty easy to (deliberately or inadvertently) craft the questions in a manner so as to favor that result. If the questions are biased, the results will reflect that bias.

 

[KJD]

John Dabels: Yes. When you buy a car and take title, that triggers an obligation by the manufacturer to provide service parts. I am paraphrasing the law, but if you buy a car at any authorized dealership in the US, the manufacturer must provide service and parts for 10 years. So, you buy an EV1 in California and you move to Bangor, Maine. GM has to provide service. Leasing takes care of that problem.

http://insideevs.com/insideevs-exclusive-interview-with-general-motors-ev1-marketing-director-john-dabels-part-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some one should tell Nissan that they are breaking the law.

 

[FairwoodRed]

If you are wondering what survey Nissan used, it is likely the one from March 2013. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11841 If you read into it a little, you can see that it was written to reach a desired result, and it did.

Below are the parts of the Survey that Dave shared with us. I took it too, but I did not capture any of the questions.

ok, FINALLY got the survey (was buried in the "unimportant" mail)

Assume it were possible to extend capacity loss coverage through an extended service contract.
The extended service contract would give you an additional 2 years coverage over current (total period of 7 years) at a cost of $30 a month to be paid during years 6 and 7 and cover you if capacity loss dropped below 8 bars of capacity (out of 12) and or 60%.
In this case, how interested would you be in extending your capacity loss coverage?

my answer 8. i selected the cost. at $720 for two years, more than most extended service contracts but this gives you real value should you need it.

Based on your previous responses you typically charge your Nissan LEAF to 100% and acquire approximately 74 miles range.
What is the minimum driving range that you require to meet your daily driving needs?
Example: If you require the Nissan LEAF provide 40 miles range minimum to meet your daily driving needs, please slide the bar to 40.

previously before I got my LEAF, i said 50 miles but that was before i found out how much more i would want to drive it (not a EV newbie but still caught me a bit off guard) so changed to 60

You mentioned previously that when the battery capacity is no longer covered by warranty and if you experienced capacity loss leaving you with 60 miles that you would be interested in replacing the Lithium Ion battery with a new 24kWh battery giving you approximately the same range that your Nissan LEAF had when it was new.
If Nissan offered you the opportunity to rent a battery replacement by making monthly payments for as long as you own your Nissan LEAF, instead of a one time payment, with $0 down at signing guaranteeing you at least 70% battery capacity for as long as your own your LEAF, how interested would you be in taking advantage of this offer?

7/10 tough question and wish there were comment options here. I would only rent if I could be guaranteed 80%. 70% is too low for my current situation. i would consider 25% but no lower

At what monthly payment (for as long as you own your Nissan LEAF with $0 down at signing), would you be willing to rent a new 24kWh Lithium Ion Battery?
Note: Based on this offer, if the Nissan LEAF battery capacity fell below 70%, Nissan would replace your battery at no additional charge.
Please slide the bar to indicate your ideal monthly payment.

I said $30 as ideal, no more than $50 but once again, 70% is just too low.
either way, great survey. really gives one an impression of what Nissan is looking at.

 

[GregH]

Suppose Nissan didn't offer the $100/mo lease but rather came back and said that a replacement battery was $10,000. Like all of you I can only guess what that number is... $8000? $12000? $15000? But for the sake of argument let's say $10k. So they announce the new 24kWh battery at $10k and then what happens? Besides all the anti-EV pundits writing editorials in the WSJ about how EVs make no economic sense, can you imagine the outcry from Arizona folks faced with an extra $10k every 2 years?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNpis3pogck[/youtube]

 

[FairwoodRed]

Suppose that Nissan didn’t offer any battery price – no one can buy it. How many satisfied owners do you imagine?

Now suppose that Nissan offered a replacement battery at a profitable price ($15,000 ?). Can you image at least a couple owners being satisfied?

Finally, suppose that Nissan follows thru and actually offers a battery rental program similar to the one they announced (you can’t rent one as of today). I imagine that slightly more would be satisfied.

In short, I don’t see any plan on the table that makes even a simple majority happy. So I’ll take whatever price they want to offer, in whatever form they want to offer it, so that I can finally make the informed decision that I should have made back in 2011.

Can I afford this car?

 

[nosuchthing]

The 2011 Leaf is worth about 12-15 thousand in used car market. It would make no sense to buy a 10,000 dollar item to bring it up to par only to see it degrade 2 years later again.

To invest in this car, the product has to be better which means it will not lose capacity as it did with the original chemistry AND it has to deliver more range, because market is maturing and range is a big issue now.

Honestly, I should have leased. I've lost 10 grand after 2-year ownership and now have to patiently wait to upgrade this i-Miev-ranged beast. It's our Costco car now. It won't make SF trip anymore.

This is also why I settled for leasing Spark which - as a car - does not compare to Leaf, but delivers about 90 miles range in combined driving. Yeah, Nissan. You lost a customer there. I could have leased 2013. Nope. I did not. Range!

 

[TomT]

The odds are that the Spark battery will hold up better than the Leaf battery too...

This is also why I settled for leasing Spark which - as a car - does not compare to Leaf, but delivers about 90 miles range in combined driving. Yeah, Nissan. You lost a customer there. I could have leased 2013. Nope. I did not. Range!

 

[nosuchthing]

The odds are that the Spark battery will hold up better than the Leaf battery too...

Too bad it's going back in 32 months... :lol:

Wife loves it. For me - it's too much tossing around at 60+ mph. And all that GM weirdness. At first I could not find the recline seat lever if my life depended on it. It was downhill from there...

But...90 miles. We got it up to 115 at 35-45 mph trip on back roads. Very reassuring.

The best thing about it besides the range is its GOM. It's excellent. Besides that, I don't like a thing about it. Pity Nissan can't deliver on the range - and chemistry.

 

[surfingslovak]

I was checking German LEAF pricing on nissan.de and couldn't help noticing the following battery lease terms. The UK price sheet contains something similar, even though the webpage only offers a battery rent estimator tool.