BUY NOW or LATER

[occ]

We are lucky enough to be able to afford a new car without any financial problems, so we went for it...and what a payoff! Soooo many reasons to do so, and not one reason to wait. As a matter of fact, after driving the LEAF for 7 months, we are already planning to get rid of our 2nd of two gasser for the 2nd EV. In about 3.5 yrs when our LEAF payment is done, we are hoping to get an EV with around 200+ mile range that would cost <$50k (keeping fingers crossed here - mid-end Tesla S is a bit too expensive for us)......so yes, we bought NOW, and will buy LATER as well. Absolutely no regrets!

Longer range trips? for 3-4 times a year, we'll rent a gasser.

 

[planet4ever]

Options:
1) Keep my Xb (currently $166 month and only owe $5500 and will be paid off in 2014)
2) buy leaf now (after trade $357mo, 60 months after tax credit) and then buy something used around $10k in 2014 for daughter.
Any suggestions? Anyone have a crystal ball?

Have you ever thought of leasing? I have a 3 year lease at $295 a month.

I'll second mpm3710's suggestion. If you lease you don't need a crystal ball; you are covered whether the value goes up or down, whether the battery is a champ or a dud. And your monthly payment is much lower than for a purchase.

Ray

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have been interested in the Leaf for about 2 years now.

easy to understand that feeling we were all there once.

I am on the fence about being an "early adopter" since I anticipate the cost of these to come down, but at the same time the federal tax credit would be reduced, so I don't see the net price of these falling within the next 3 years.

yes and no. the cost will NOT go down and yes the tax credit will eventually. still have a long ways for that. in a free market enterprise the car will sell for whatever Nissan can get for it.

as gas prices go up the "EV premium" does not go down, only the "gas penalty" goes up. the gap is smaller so in a sense you would save money but not by getting the Leaf at a lower price.

I did the math and at current gas prices, it will cost more to own the leaf (even with tax credit) than my current 2011 scion xb (25mpg).

hmmm, really? what gas price did you use? add in additional penalties to the environment, federal deficit, oil changes, 10-20% reduction in gas mileage in winter? etc?

I already worked a deal with the dealer and they are giving me a pretty good amount on my trade, so I am not taking a bath on that.

what are you waiting for??

Note; without your location, no one here can give you a true evaluation

Note; without your commuting plans, distances, etc. see above.

so with limited info. i would buy now, in 3 years, give to daughter. this insures she cant drive far due to range limitations and you get new EV. or lease. you could sell current car, put some cash into it, get lease rates low. (i put down 10,000 and my payments are $162 a month. add in gas savings and it drops the cost to $90 a month)

Note; i am late to this thread (i guess) since we are at 3 pages. i did not read those responses so i will leave out the last note which i am sure has already been said several times...

ya know, the part about driving electric, the silence, the power , the coolness...that part

 

[Stanton]

I hesitate to post because I'm not sure it will sway your decision (seems like you have a $$ choice to make), but the circumstances surrounding my Leaf purchase did have some similarities:

1) My son needed a car for college at some point in 2012, so he was either going to get my Mini Cooper or something else (which he wouldn't like as much but would be cheap)
2) I had wanted an EV for YEARS, and I had my eye on the Leaf since the initial wait list (which I missed out on)

So, when the reservation list was reopened (in 2011), I had a decision to make: do I stick with my Mini and buy my son a "beater" next Fall, or get my Leaf and give him my Mini? Obviously, I got my Leaf and needless to say, we're both thrilled!
Now there are a couple of differences: my other cars were paid for, and even if my older boy doesn't take the Mini to college, my younger son will be learning how to drive in it (like his older brother did). I wouldn't let "something better in the future" sway your decision; I've seen just about every EV out there except a Tesla (which is way out my price range--even the ones that aren't $100k): Focus-e, Volt, Coda, Mits-i, and Nissan has a 12-24 month jump on EVERYONE. I was talking to some "in the know" from Schneider (they make EVSEs) at a trade show last week who doesn't think there will be any significant technology changes to the Leaf until 2013, and the price (of all EVs) will continue to rise (they'll just put more range into them) as the tax rebates end. There's no time like the present.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Never ending improvement and lower price, but I already have Leaf
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...st-less-go-wireless-travel-further-be-smarter

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It may be the best case for buying (or perhaps leasing) now is what we see every night on the evening news. With Iran burrowing deeper underground with their nuke program and Israel getting more nervous by the day, it's hard to see this not ending badly. Of course it's silly to suggest that an electric car will insulate you from world events, but it's a bit of hedge if the oil situation suddenly gets worse.

 

[clifsmith]

I read the article on the 2014 model. It really makes sense for me to wait. I will take the gamble. Just for fun I am going to make my prediction on the 2014 model as far as cost and range and features. I will resurrect this post in the spring of 2014 to see the results. Please feel free to make your prediction:

My Prediction for Spring of 2014:

2014 model
Base MSRP: $34k
Range: 120 miles
New Features: larger charger, inductive charging (already known fact), quicker "quick charge" time
Other predictions: $7500 tax credit still available but close to end, Texas will have some incentives possibly sales tax waiver or credit (right now they have none).
Price of Gasoline: $5.50 per gallon.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

This is what I know:

If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut production.
If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut R&D.
If no/low demand other manufacturers will abandon their plans for product.
If market condition will create elevated demand price will go up due to demand

I was expecting 50% state tax credit on EV purchase (should run till 2015) but was canceled July, 2010 due to budget constrain and other factors

I read the article on the 2014 model. It really makes sense for me to wait. I will take the gamble. My Prediction for Spring of 2014:

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

You have some very good points. we definitely decided to buy when we did to help market momentum as there are no guarantees that this will reach the critical mass to survive over the long run. it's not just a matter of letting the market decide who the winner is, the market is heavily stacked in favor of petroleum due to heavy subsidies to the Oil industry and the military funding allocated to support it. I hate to say it, but if a republican gets in the white house before this really reaches mainstream economy of scale, they will try and kill it; I base that on the rabid political polarity that the right has generated against EV's and the linking of EV's to Obama. Buying an EV is not a vote for Obama! this could very well be a make or break year for EV's. We've got a steep hill to climb to counter all the deliberate bad press and see this market expand across political lines and ultimately to a plethora of car/truck models and makes.

For those who can swing it, buying now is critical for the market momentum and future of EV's!

For those who are republicans and see the value this technology has toward energy independence and reduce reliance on foreign oil, please help set the record straight if you hear your friends spread negativity and don't be afraid to show your support by buying one of the models available today.

...
If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut production.
If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut R&D.
If no/low demand other manufacturers will abandon their plans for product.
...

I read the article on the 2014 model. It really makes sense for me to wait. I will take the gamble. My Prediction for Spring of 2014:

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I hate to say it, but if a republican gets in the white house before this really reaches mainstream economy of scale, they will try and kill it

Wasn't the $7500 tax credit part of legislation during the Bush administration?

 

[davewill]

I hate to say it, but if a republican gets in the white house before this really reaches mainstream economy of scale, they will try and kill it

Wasn't the $7500 tax credit part of legislation during the Bush administration?

It certainly was! But since then, alternative energy has become another political football.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

that's my understanding and yet pretty much anything that Obama inherited, good and bad, is being vilified and lumped together and targeted by the far right or at least that's how it appears from my vantage point.

I hate to say it, but if a republican gets in the white house before this really reaches mainstream economy of scale, they will try and kill it

Wasn't the $7500 tax credit part of legislation during the Bush administration?

 

[abasile]

While I voted for McCain rather than Obama, and would do the same thing all over again, I really am sick of the "blame Obama" game. (I didn't care for all of the virulent hatred of President Bush, either.) What ever happened to the idea of respecting the President, even if you don't agree with him on everything? I happen to largely agree with Obama on issues pertaining to energy and the environment, and applaud him for advocating "one million EVs" by 2015. It bothers me that Mitt Romney has laughed off the Chevy Volt, calling it "a car whose time has not come". What a panderer. (I wasn't crazy about Romney four years ago either.) As I also have major differences with Obama, I'm not really looking forward to voting this November.

 

[evnow]

Wasn't the $7500 tax credit part of legislation during the Bush administration?

Right - but under Obama it became 200k per manufacturer instead of 200k overall.

Though, I do think the 7.5k will survive because removing it will face big opposition from within Republican ranks too (just as cap & trade faced a lot of opposition from Dem senators from coal states).

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Wasn't the $7500 tax credit part of legislation during the Bush administration?

Right - but under Obama it became 200k per manufacturer instead of 200k overall.

Though, I do think the 7.5k will survive because removing it will face big opposition from within Republican ranks too (just as cap & trade faced a lot of opposition from Dem senators from coal states).

Maybe the coal states will lobby to save the credit. EVs are coal powered after all.

 

[clifsmith]

Eventually, I would hope they (via electric generating plant) would be nuclear powered, wind, solar. unlimited clean energy sources.

The biggest issue with these tax credits is that you must have the tax bill (after all deductions) of at least $7500 or you wont get the full amouint. That puts most people with tax return salaries above $75k annually with a mortgage. A lot of people with smaller salaries won't get that full amount. Granted most people with smaller salaries will not be able to afford this car. Also, you have to wait a year (if you buy early in the year) to get that money. I wish the govt would offer mfr's rebates instead. That way, the final amount would be financed. At least the govt is doing SOMETHING though for EVs, hats off to them. Now if we could just get the State and Local Govts on the incentive bandwagon. Especially Texas, where we LOVE to drive all over creation.

 

[KJD]

Maybe the coal states will lobby to save the credit. EVs are coal powered after all.

Maybe your EV is coal powered, but mine is SOLAR powered and has been for the last 5 years.
http://www.evalbum.com/3175" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I need to add a new picture with the Leaf charging up. There are a lot of people on this list that also have solar besides me. Coal SUX

KJD

 

[kg4bec]

For those who can swing it, buying now is critical for the market momentum and future of EV's!

...
If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut production.
If no/low demand then manufacturer will cut R&D.
If no/low demand other manufacturers will abandon their plans for product.
...

I read the article on the 2014 model. It really makes sense for me to wait. I will take the gamble. My Prediction for Spring of 2014:

+1 for market momentum. I bought one, not only because I've wanted one for years, but I believe that if we don't buy one now, there will be no incentive for Nissan to continue to research battery improvements. I wanted to make sure I did my part to give Nissan (and any other manufacturer who wants to do 100% electric) the message that there IS a market out there.

Cheers, Bert

 

[thankyouOB]

anyone who thinks the Goopers will continue to support tax credits for EVs hasnt been reading or watching the news.

if Obama is for it, they are against it. That even extends to the health care act, which was a modeled after a Heritage Foundation privatized-mandate system that was devised to head off Medicare-for-all.
The EV credit would have been gone a year ago without Obama administration pushing to keep it and extend it. As it is, the EVSE credit was cut from 50% to 30%, and it was made difficult to combine with the EV credit.

Bush may have signed a tax bill that included EV rebates in 2008 (Tax Extenders and Alternative Minimum Tax Relief Act of 2008), but it was written by a Democratic house and passed in a Democratic Senate and was part of a much larger bill. Also, the one we all got paid under passed in 2009 and, as noted above, was expanded to add more vehicles and only included at the insistence of Democrats.

on Gooper opposition, read below:

Republican Congressman Mike Kelly represents Pennsylvania's 3rd congressional district. Kelly's bill, H.R. 3768, cites a "lack of mainstream market demand" as the main reason for canceling the credit. In a growing trend, Kelly uses electric cars as a political football, especially after the failure of Solyndra. "The misuse of taxpayer dollars to promote the electric vehicle is emblematic of the Obama administration's overall misunderstanding, and ultimate manipulation, of the free market principles that undergird our economy," said Kelly. "President Obama has become the 'Venture Capitalist in Chief,' gambling hard-earned taxpayer dollars in green projects and industries that are more politically than performance driven."

Kelly echoes the main argument espoused by anti-EV advocates—that electric cars are toys for rich people. Kelly says that subsidizing the purchases of upper-income individuals is not the correct course of action to take during these difficult financial times. According to Kelly, the $7,500 credit goes to the "few who can actually afford to buy an electric car."

 

[planet4ever]

The biggest issue with these tax credits is that you must have the tax bill (after all deductions) of at least $7500 or you wont get the full amouint. That puts most people with tax return salaries above $75k annually with a mortgage. A lot of people with smaller salaries won't get that full amount.

I'm repeating myself, but this is simply not true. If you lease you get the full $7500 credit regardless of your tax situation, and you get it immediately, not a year later. [More specifically, you don't get the credit directly, but Nissan passes it on to you.]

Ray