CHAdeMO losing the standards battle?

[GRA]

Getting back to the topic..

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What? Topic drift? You must be joking

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Getting back to the topic, the new fast charging stations that EVgo has installed in my area all seem to have both CHAdeMo and SAE Combo, so maybe that's the wave of the near future: just put both chargers in a station and let the manufacturers keep choosing which to install. Sadly, they don't seem to have L-2, so I can just look at them until my next car...

As a consumer, I like this trend. It means that I'm free to choose the EV that best suits me, rather than the one with the charge port that matches the local chargers. I'm personally glad to hear Albany got dual-standard units, since Albany is the single-most important DCQC waypoint for all of my travels.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm personally glad to hear Albany got dual-standard units, since Albany is the single-most important DCQC waypoint for all of my travels.

The bad news for you is that none of them are on the interstate. You'd have to get off of it and go to the Albany Hannaford Supermarket (close to I-90, anyway) to charge. At least you can eat and shop a little.

 

[GRA]

At least here in California, after the initial sites that had a single CHAdeMO and later added a dual-standard charger, the later ones usually had two dual-standard units (at least one has 4 IIRR). As we've all been saying for years, two independent units per site is the minimum needed for people to trust that they'll be able to charge (even if they might be delayed). Many/most of the eVgo QCs here also have an L2 co-located.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm personally glad to hear Albany got dual-standard units, since Albany is the single-most important DCQC waypoint for all of my travels.

The bad news for you is that none of them are on the interstate. You'd have to get off of it and go to the Albany Hannaford Supermarket (close to I-90, anyway) to charge. At least you can eat and shop a little.

Yeah, I know. But that's ok - I'm an early adopter type. I'm willing to make a 20 minute stop and Hannaford. There is probably a rest room available, and it's a cheaper place to buy snacks for the kids than the Thruway rest stop.

The key is that it enables me to complete such trips at all. The long game for me is to get a long-range BEV first, and then put even more pressure on the Thruway Authority. There is no good reason they couldn't put half a dozen DCQC at every rest stop. Only money and political will. Supposedly NYS wants to be a leader in clean transportation, but so far that means spending money *studying* the problems. We need to show them that there could be a real market to sell electricity to Thruway travelers.

 

[GRA]

Via IEVS:

Renault To Equip Future EVs With 22 kW AC and 100 kW DC CCS Combo Charging

http://insideevs.com/renault-to-equip-future-evs-with-22-kw-ac-and-100-kw-dc-ccs-combo-charging/

Who does that leave for CHAdeMO? Nissan, Mitsubishi and Hyundai (the last two both maybes? Hyundai's a CCS member). I imagine PSA will opt for CCS, and the Germans obviously all will; FCA's also a member. Volvo will presumably use CCS (or GB/T in China).

 

[mtndrew1]

Looks like Renault is moving to CCS.

http://insideevs.com/renault-zoe-to-be-ready-for-ccs-combo-dc-fast-charging-by-2019/

CCS:

Audi (Q6 eTron)
BMW (i3)
Ford (Focus EV, Model E)
GM (Spark EV, Bolt EV)
Honda (Clarity BEV)
Hyundai (IONIQ EV)
Karma (Revero)
Porsche (Mission E)
Renault (Zoe)
VW (eGolf, eUp)

CHAdeMO:

Kia (Soul EV)
Nissan (Leaf, e-NV)
Toyota (Prius Prime JDM)

 

[craig]

Surely this is a fringe topic. What do you suppose is the percentage of BEV drivers who ever charge anywhere but at home?

 

[mtndrew1]

Surely this is a fringe topic. What do you suppose is the percentage of BEV drivers who ever charge anywhere but at home?

I use my quick charge capability (CHAdeMO) about twice per month. I wouldn't consider another BEV without the functionality as it's that important to the usability of the car for me.

I don't think we'll see true quick charge usage patterns until the market is saturated with 150+ EPA mile cars.

 

[craig]

I was looking for the QC package just so that I could be sure of getting the 6.6kw charger for my home L2 setup. I will prolly never use a Quick Charge station, though I can see how it would be a useful thing for commuters who are at the edge of their range.

 

[wmcbrine]

CHAdeMO:

Kia (Soul EV)
Nissan (Leaf, e-NV)
Toyota (Prius Prime JDM)

Mitsubishi (i-MiEV)
Tesla (S, via an adaptor -- none for CCS yet)

 

[cwerdna]

CHAdeMO:

Kia (Soul EV)
Nissan (Leaf, e-NV)
Toyota (Prius Prime JDM)

Mitsubishi (i-MiEV)
Tesla (S, via an adaptor -- none for CCS yet)

http://www.chademo.com/wp/chademo-ev/ has a list.

Japanese market BMW i3 comes w/CHAdeMO standard (http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-gets-chademo-charged-japan/, http://www.bmw.co.jp/ja/press/2016/20160927-a.html and http://news.bmw.co.jp/press/2013/11/13a.html).

Honda Clarity FCV supposedly comes w/CHAdeMO outlet (http://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/29/honda-shows-next-years-clarity-fuel-cell-car-with-power-export-via-chademo-port/) like the Toyota Mirai FCV.

 

[SageBrush]

I was looking for the QC package just so that I could be sure of getting the 6.6kw charger for my home L2 setup. I will prolly never use a Quick Charge station, though I can see how it would be a useful thing for commuters who are at the edge of their range.

It works the other way around for me: QC extends my range.

E.g., we occasionally 'go to the city' 90 miles away for shopping. L2 en-route is enough to add a little buffer to get there but L2 for the 90 miles back home is way to slow. If the city had convenient QC I could effectively double the LEAF range.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Surely this is a fringe topic. What do you suppose is the percentage of BEV drivers who ever charge anywhere but at home?

I never QC my 24kWh Leaf. There still isn't a CHAdeMO within a single-charge range of my house. Even so, it is wonderful for commuting and local errands (90% of trips, maybe 40% of my annual miles). However, if I had a 200-mile BEV, I could make the 250 mile trip to my mother's house with a single 15 minute pit stop in Albany.

I'm sure that type of pattern repeats for others. So even though DCQC is a "fringe topic" for now, it will very soon become a "mainstream topic".

 

[webeleafowners]

Help a rookie to understand here. So with the exception of the leaf and a couple others everyone else is not using the CHademo connector for fast charge? So if I understand this correctly, none of the others can use the CHademo fast charge stations. So when I look at the plug share map and see all the CHademo stations none of these will be useable in the future except by the leaf and a couple others. I wonder if the province will rip them all out. (They just put them in). Will there be adapters. Confusing times.

John and Angela

 

[craig]

I was looking for the QC package just so that I could be sure of getting the 6.6kw charger for my home L2 setup. I will prolly never use a Quick Charge station, though I can see how it would be a useful thing for commuters who are at the edge of their range.

It works the other way around for me: QC extends my range.

E.g., we occasionally 'go to the city' 90 miles away for shopping. L2 en-route is enough to add a little buffer to get there but L2 for the 90 miles back home is way to slow. If the city had convenient QC I could effectively double the LEAF range.

Isn't there a Nissan dealer in the city with a Quick Charge setup?

 

[craig]

Surely this is a fringe topic. What do you suppose is the percentage of BEV drivers who ever charge anywhere but at home?

I never QC my 24kWh Leaf. There still isn't a CHAdeMO within a single-charge range of my house. Even so, it is wonderful for commuting and local errands (90% of trips, maybe 40% of my annual miles). However, if I had a 200-mile BEV, I could make the 250 mile trip to my mother's house with a single 15 minute pit stop in Albany.

I'm sure that type of pattern repeats for others. So even though DCQC is a "fringe topic" for now, it will very soon become a "mainstream topic".

I hope so: anything that fosters a more EV friendly mindset: I won't shed a tear for the demise of FFV.

 

[SageBrush]

I was looking for the QC package just so that I could be sure of getting the 6.6kw charger for my home L2 setup. I will prolly never use a Quick Charge station, though I can see how it would be a useful thing for commuters who are at the edge of their range.

It works the other way around for me: QC extends my range.

E.g., we occasionally 'go to the city' 90 miles away for shopping. L2 en-route is enough to add a little buffer to get there but L2 for the 90 miles back home is way to slow. If the city had convenient QC I could effectively double the LEAF range.

Isn't there a Nissan dealer in the city with a Quick Charge setup?

No -- they have L2. My point though was that if QC is available it can markedly change the use scenarios of the car.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Help a rookie to understand here. So with the exception of the leaf and a couple others everyone else is not using the CHademo connector for fast charge? So if I understand this correctly, none of the others can use the CHademo fast charge stations. So when I look at the plug share map and see all the CHademo stations none of these will be useable in the future except by the leaf and a couple others. I wonder if the province will rip them all out. (They just put them in). Will there be adapters. Confusing times.

John and Angela

Take a deep breath. If your province wants to support German auto manufacturers, plus General Motors and Ford, they can install a second CCS - Combo 1 charger right next to the CHAdeMO chargers.

Most existing cars have CHAdeMO capability. Nothing much has changed in the standards issues, as CHAdeMO still has the most compatible cars and by far the most charge stations. But, some of the German manufacturers might actually BUILD CARS that have CCS !!! Currently, Mercedes build several EVs without any fast charge capability, for instance.

CHAdeMO is the only standard in the world that uses the same plug worldwide. That includes Tesla Supercharger. CHAdeMO is the official standard in Japan, and one of two official DC standards in Europe. It is BY FAR the number one public DC charging standards in North America.

CHAdeMO is "System A" in the International standards (IEC).

The number of CHAdeMO DC Quick chargers installed today is:

13,295 (Oct 2016)

Japan 6958
Europe 3866
USA 1956
Others 515

Fast charge stations in North America and Europe in the future will have both CHAdeMO and CCS (that is unique for their respective regional markets, CCS - Combo 1 in North America and CCS - Combo 2 in Europe). Europe will also have 22kW AC fast charging that isn't available in North America.

Because of the fact that public chargers will have multiple plugs, adaptors won't be necessary for anybody except Tesla cars.

 

[TonyWilliams]

CHAdeMO:

Kia (Soul EV)
Nissan (Leaf, e-NV)
Toyota (Prius Prime JDM)

Mitsubishi (i-MiEV)
Tesla (S, via an adaptor -- none for CCS yet)

http://www.chademo.com/wp/chademo-ev/ has a list.

Japanese market BMW i3 comes w/CHAdeMO standard (http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-gets-chademo-charged-japan/, http://www.bmw.co.jp/ja/press/2016/20160927-a.html and http://news.bmw.co.jp/press/2013/11/13a.html).

Honda Clarity FCV supposedly comes w/CHAdeMO outlet (http://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/29/honda-shows-next-years-clarity-fuel-cell-car-with-power-export-via-chademo-port/) like the Toyota Mirai FCV.

OTHER CHAdeMO CAPABLE VEHICLES:

2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV w/JdeMO

2008-2011 Tesla Roadster w/JdeMO