Charging station location rant

[TimLee]

While I bought my Leaf primarily for driving the 6 miles to and from work. I was worried about giving up a long distance car. We have another car, but what if I had to drive to my mom's house 180 miles away at the drop of a hat. Well I looked at the Blink stations between Nashville and Knoxville and there are 3 evenly spaced DCFC stations between approximately 50 miles apart. I guess I am lucky. Now if I tried to head in any other direction from Nashville, I am out of luck. None to be found. Looks like they are starting to put some charging stations in a few areas. Good luck, I hope they add some to your area soon.

BTW I just bought it this weekend and am so happy with it.

Welcome to having a LEAF.
You can also make it to Chattanooga.
Ecotality installed Blink DCFC units along the interstates at Cracker Barrels between Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga under the eV Project funding.
But note that they are a bit far apart.
The spacing is OK in the summer if they are all working.
But in the winter, the distance between the Athens, TN and Farragut, TN is nearly too much for a 2 year old LEAF with some battery degradation while running the heater. When I did only an 80% charge at Athens in 40F weather with a 21 month old 2011 LEAF in 40F ambient; I found that I had to turn the heater off half way to the next station, and I just barely made it with Guess-O-Meter showing 1 mile left and Low Battery Warning on.
And note that it is a slow trip. From my house in Ooltewah, TN to downtown Knoxville my overall speed for the one way trip was 38 mph. And the battery was low when I got there. Overall average speed for the round trip was more like 30 mph.
I'm glad the stations are there so I could go to Knoxville or Nashville, but they will be of limited infrequent use.
And to be confidently reliable for making the trip, there needs to be about twice as many minimum.

Please add your location in your profile, as it helps people in easily understanding your future posts.

 

[EVerlasting]

Yep, I consider L2 stations to be of basically no value at any place where you are likely to stop of your own volition for less than a few hours!
L3 QCDC is the only thing that makes sense along highways and interstates and at many destinations! L2 in many cases is nothing more than a scam...

As someone who has zero L2 stations withing LEAF range I vehemently disagree. A couple of L2 stations would be of great benefit to me when I am trying to stretch my range in winter as my battery degrades. I think what is being overlooked is that one doesn't have to fill the car, taking hours to do so, to have L2 opportunity charging be beneficial. If I need an additional ten miles to make it home comfortably and am getting about 4 miles/kWh, that works out to about 45 minutes at 3.3 kW (and about 25 minutes at 6.0 kW for 2013 owners with the faster charger). That would be very helpful to keep my car going for several years longer, even with a degraded battery.

Yes, L2 charging isn't practical for doubling the range, or something like that, unless one is going to be parked a long time anyway, such as at a workplace. But short L2 opportunity charges can help a lot to extend the range a little bit to make up for declining battery capacity. (An L2 charge station at a grocery store would be ideal, in my case.)

So, it bugs me when those who have a plethora of L2 charge stations where they live continually knock them as being useless. I wish I had some here! It would make planning for the future a lot easier.

I get your point about extending the range a few miles to comfortably get to somewhere slightly beyond range. L2 are perfect at shopping places, restaurants, coffee shops, malls, and grocery stores where we do spend and hour or two shopping. But we are generally talking about EV travel between cities. L2 is not for that. Ask me! It took me 11 hours to do a 120 mile trip http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13567&start=30 in my 2012 Leaf from Waterbury, CT to Morristown, NJ. I stopped at two Nissan Dealerships on the way where it took me more than 7 hours of charging on their L2 stations. Yes, L2 makes it possible but not practical. It would be nice for you to have them around but after you get them, you will realize they just extend your range slightly with short duration charges but you can't make it to other cities without QCDC. Yes the Leaf was designed for city driving but it has the potential to make convenient long trips with the right type of infrastructure. I would go coast to coast if there are QCDC every 40 miles and they don't charge a fortune to recharge at those stations.

 

[loomis2]

Last night I went downtown to catch a movie at the IMAX theater. It is about a 13-14 mile trip one-way. I took the car after my wife got home from work, letting it charge on our L2 for about a half-hour first. When I got to the theater I still had about 22 miles range, so I felt OK. Not great, but OK. On the drive home the on-ramp to the highway was closed because of construction, which I didn't know before-hand. I took an alternate route home, but now I was stretching it. About half-way home the computer let me know I may not have the range to make it to my destination! The last 7-8 miles is almost all uphill, and a steep uphill at that. With 5 miles or so to go my battery indicator went from 6% to --- , my range indicator was already at --- , and I had a huge hill to climb. I was sweating bullets, and not just because I had turned the AC off a long time ago. Still, I made it home without any trouble, but the moral of my story is this would have been a moot point if the parking garage for the Newport on the Levee complex had a few charging stations available! That is by far the closest I have come to running out of juice. Maybe I will pass this story along the the Levee folks. (Edit: I just contacted them. we will see if anything happens next.)

BTW, the movie was Pacific Rim, which if you have the chance to catch it in IMAX 3D I highly recommend you do.

 

[EVerlasting]

but the moral of my story is this would have been a moot point if the parking garage for the Newport on the Levee complex had a few charging stations available! That is by far the closest I have come to running out of juice. Maybe I will pass this story along the the Levee folks. (Edit: I just contacted them. we will see if anything happens next.)

If the parking garage had a few parking stations available (with Tow-Away signs placed there for ICE cars). I contacted Costco to install charging stations at their warehouses in my area because I am a member. I am also planning to write to the local Shop-Rite, Kohls, ALDI, A&P, Pathmark, Walgreens, TD Bank, PNC Bank, Stop & Shop, and the local library. All of them have NONE at the moment. If all of us start writing to these vendors, we may be able to at least see some charging stations come up in our areas and our lives will become a little better.

 

[loomis2]

I seriously wonder how many businesses have even thought about it as an option. I would even be perfectly happy with less-than-premium parking spots. Heck, put them in the back of the garage, I won't mind.

 

[DVCRobin]

Welcome to having a LEAF.
You can also make it to Chattanooga.
Ecotality installed Blink DCFC units along the interstates at Cracker Barrels between Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga under the eV Project funding.
But note that they are a bit far apart.
The spacing is OK in the summer if they are all working.
But in the winter, the distance between the Athens, TN and Farragut, TN is nearly too much for a 2 year old LEAF with some battery degradation while running the heater. When I did only an 80% charge at Athens in 40F weather with a 21 month old 2011 LEAF in 40F ambient; I found that I had to turn the heater off half way to the next station, and I just barely made it with Guess-O-Meter showing 1 mile left and Low Battery Warning on.
And note that it is a slow trip. From my house in Ooltewah, TN to downtown Knoxville my overall speed for the one way trip was 38 mph. And the battery was low when I got there. Overall average speed for the round trip was more like 30 mph.
I'm glad the stations are there so I could go to Knoxville or Nashville, but they will be of limited infrequent use.
And to be confidently reliable for making the trip, there needs to be about twice as many minimum.

Please add your location in your profile, as it helps people in easily understanding your future posts.

Thank you Tim. We have a Versa that will be our primary means of travel to K-town and Chattanooga. But with my Dad and MIL getting older, I worry about an emergency trip if DH is out of town with the Versa. It is great to know I have options.

Thanks about the tips on the winter and heaters. Another concern of mine is Monteagle Mountain or the Plateau depending on which route I take. I am sure they will sap the battery (and recharge it going down).

 

[edatoakrun]

...Sorry to say, but the dearth of DC Fast Charge Stations (aside from government money funding) is really just an indication that there is no business model that would allow cost recovery (much less any profit). You see people complaining about ECOtality trying to charge $5 for a DC FC session here in the west? Depending on volume at the charging station, that is about 25% of what it costs to pay for the operational costs of each of the charging sessions in a month (at least here in California) on a modestly used station...

Sorry to say, but IMO, that statement is without foundation.

The fact is, while there are relatively few locations where public L2 will ever be economically viable, public DC will allow a profitable business model, once BEVs reach sufficient numbers to support the charge stations.

Public L2, due to the very slow charge times and the need to segregate and reserve parking spaces means L2 will always be quite expensive per kWh delivered. PHEV drivers will generally find gas the cheaper alternative, and DC-capable BEV drivers will generally find that fast charging at dedicated charge stations, not L2 parking lots, will be both cheaper and more reliable.

Its true that public L2 is much better than nothing, but that faint praise is damning.

You have to crawl before you can walk, and public L2 may be a necessary bridge to the point where BEV numbers reach the point that they can support a mature public charge infrastructure.

But how much crawling have you done, since you learned to walk?