Chevy Volt wins Motor Trend Car Of The Year

[DaveinOlyWA]

At the purchase level, yes, I agree completely. But at the lease level, which is the same price as the base Leaf, it is actually a much better value than the Leaf.

Tom

ummm not for me because;

1) lease is half the story. higher price means higher residual

2) lease is good now, but what about the future? granted, several other options will be on the table by then

3) the EV range is really the ONLY thing i care about. i dont have range anxiety any more than i have anxiety over any other law or parameter in my life that i have to abide by. most people have some anxiety over financial security. i do not. i have had it and lost it a few times in my life. hopefully, i will not have to go thru that again, but if it happens, i know that one way or another i will survive and i sure as hell aint gonna waste any of my time right now worried about 1) things i cannot control, 2) speculation on woulda coulda shoulda's

4) range (revisited) 30 miles puts my estimated effective EV range at about 800 miles a month (based on driving stats collected since Nov 2003). @100 miles i could potentially do nearly 2000 miles a month.

5)confidence; i have to look at it in one of two ways with each company

Nissan is either "all in" or they are rolling the dice on a last chance desperate gamble to survive. if it were 5 years earlier when Nissan takeover attempts were being discussed, i might have considered the latter, but the company is healthy and has brought itself up from the brink.

i choose confidence and i dont think they are stupid enough to trumpet a product unless they were 100% sure of the range issues. now quality is ONLY something that must be earned over time. reliability we can only hope for. no amount of testing can give more than a decent indication of possible long term issues other than simply seeing what happens during that long term use.

GM; they have changed their info on the Volt more times than Lindsay Lohan has change rehab centers. they started talking before they had anything to talk about. their tepid product rollout schedule tells me that they are not betting the farm on the Volt being successful. estimated production 20,000?. that is a "lets try it and see what happens" approach which tells me that we more more "finger crossing" than we have positive test results.

i still applaud GM for putting it out there and there is a market for the Volt. but its not the best choice for me...not even close

 

[lne937s]

At the purchase level, yes, I agree completely. But at the lease level, which is the same price as the base Leaf, it is actually a much better value than the Leaf.

Tom

but as usual, they have put out a car i cannot consider. its simply too much money PERIOD.

It is the same monthly payment, but not the same price for an equivalent lease:
Volt is a 12,000 mile lease (a little over 30 miles per day), whereas LEAF is 15,000 miles
LEAF is 2000 up front, Volt is $2500
Volt involves more options than LEAF (tacked onto the lease price).

For a typically-equipted Volt with the same mileage and downpayment, you are looking at $500+ per month, vs. $379 for the LEAF. And you have to pay more for the residual.

In addition, if you live in many places like California, you will not qualify for state and local incentives-- which means the LEAF will put a $5000 check in your pocket whereas the Volt will not. And you also have to figure in the markup many dealers are putting on the Volt and the discounts many Nissan dealers are giving the LEAF

So monthy payment could be technically be the same, but you will pay a lot more in total to lease a Volt. Leases aren't magic. The Volt is a more expensive car and you will pay more for it.

 

[TomT]

Since I plan to turn it in at the end of the three years, the higher the residual the better as far as I am concerned! Also, GM is using a better money factor than Nissan so the effective interest rate is lower.

Tom

At the purchase level, yes, I agree completely. But at the lease level, which is the same price as the base Leaf, it is actually a much better value than the Leaf.

Tom

ummm not for me because;

1) lease is half the story. higher price means higher residual

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

LEAF production is already happening. The only thing that would put LEAF deliveries behind Volt deliveries is intercontinental shipping.

If Leaf production is already happening, what's keeping the October production cars out of customer hands until January?

 

[mwalsh]

Announced this morning at the Los Angeles Auto Show...Chevy Volt wins Green Car Journal's 'Green Car of the Year' for 2011.

 

[mitch672]

LEAF production is already happening. The only thing that would put LEAF deliveries behind Volt deliveries is intercontinental shipping.

If Leaf production is already happening, what's keeping the October production cars out of customer hands until January?

single word answer: JDM (Japan Domestic Market)

Google USD to Yen, see if there is anything that might have affected Nissans decision there...

Also, it is believed they would rather release a new model closer to the "mother plant" (In Oppama), in case of any issues, they would like the engineers to be able to see and fix anthing that comes up, a JDM release will ensure this.

 

[lne937s]

These posts don't belong here. Send to "Other EV's and Hybrids"

 

[BruinLEAFer]

At the LA Auto Show, the Green Car Journal selected the Volt over the LEAF.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...lt-wins-2011-green-car-of-the-year-award.html

 

[mwalsh]

These posts don't belong here. Send to "Other EV's and Hybrids"

Excuse me? :? I put this here because this is where the other COTY thread is. Mods, please move if deemed appropriate.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

These posts don't belong here. Send to "Other EV's and Hybrids"

i take "here" to mean "among the sane"

cant believe they diss'd the Leaf for a car that gets 37 mpg

 

[mitch672]

Yes, if you don't do a lot of short trips, your almost better off in a Prius, getting 50mpg.

When Toyota releases the PHEV Prius (MY2012 perhaps as soon as mid 2011), it's pretty much all over for the Volt, at that point. GM, enjoy your time as the only commercially availble PHEV (for now). Toyota will be right there, and with a vehicle that gets far better "extended" MPG than the Volt, it only remains to see what the "electric only" range will be, the demo vehicles out now are only 13 miles, but this means nothing as to what the production vehicles EV range will be.

 

[TomT]

It might take a significant bite out of Leaf sales as well... If they can get the range up to 25 miles, it's a game changer.

Tom

When Toyota releases the PHEV Prius (MY2012 perhaps as soon as mid 2011), it's pretty much all over for the Volt, at that point. GM, enjoy your time as the only commercially availble PHEV (for now).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i agree. putting the first batch out "locally" would be best if any unforeseen issues should arise, but at the same time, its hard to dispute favoring the "home team." if for nothing more than a token gesture, i would also provide first month production to domestic demand as well.

 

[IBELEAF]

i was going to post first thing when I saw it, but I figure I did not want to be the one bringing on the "bad news" to the forum

 

[smkettner]

The real award will come at the end of 2011 for highest sales

 

[planet4ever]

but as usual, they have put out a car i cannot consider. its simply too much money PERIOD.

At the purchase level, yes, I agree completely. But at the lease level, which is the same price as the base Leaf, it is actually a much better value than the Leaf.

I don't think I agree with that.

• Actual lease payment is based on MSRP. It's easy to find a LEAF dealer offering below MSRP; It's difficult to find a Volt dealer even offering at MSRP. So the real lease payment is lower for the LEAF.
• The nominal Volt lease matches LEAF only for the base level. For higher trims, the Volt is higher than the higher trim LEAF.
• The fuel cost for the Volt is going to be higher if you ever drive more miles in a day than its battery supports.
• The maintenance cost for the Volt is going to be considerably higher than for the LEAF.
• If you want to purchase at lease end, the Volt residual is far higher than the LEAF.

 

[lne937s]

These posts don't belong here. Send to "Other EV's and Hybrids"

Excuse me? :? I put this here because this is where the other COTY thread is. Mods, please move if deemed appropriate.

This (and the MT thread) belong in the "Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids" section because they are not about the LEAF, which is what this section is about. This is not about the Nissan LEAF, so it doesn't belong in the Nissan LEAF area. In belongs in the other "Non Leaf Discussion" area with the other non-LEAF discussion.

Board index » Non Leaf Discussions » Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewforum.php?f=10

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

actually a much better value than the Leaf.

I don't think I agree with that.

• Actual lease payment is based on MSRP. It's easy to find a LEAF dealer offering below MSRP; It's difficult to find a Volt dealer even offering at MSRP. So the real lease payment is lower for the LEAF.
• The nominal Volt lease matches LEAF only for the base level. For higher trims, the Volt is higher than the higher trim LEAF.
• The fuel cost for the Volt is going to be higher if you ever drive more miles in a day than its battery supports.
• The maintenance cost for the Volt is going to be considerably higher than for the LEAF.
• If you want to purchase at lease end, the Volt residual is far higher than the LEAF.

[/quote]

wow!! i thought hard about my response to the "Volt being better" comment and thought i had covered most of it, but you bring up several more great reasons why the Leaf is still the "no-brainer" option.

ok, well maybe the best "non-rangxious" option

 

[Jimmydreams]

I'm merging and moving the 2 threads on this topic.

edit: done. (whew)

 

[iceman]

Right now, the Republicans don't want to let the tax cuts for the top 2% expire

FACTS:

Only 375,000 Americans have incomes of over $1,000,000

Between 1979 and 2007, incomes for the wealthiest 1% of Americans rose by 281%

In 1963, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 91%

In 1976, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 70%

Today, millionaires have a top marginal tax rate of 35%

Reducing the income tax on top earners is one of the most inefficient ways to grow the economy according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office

44% of Congress people are millionaires

The tax cuts were never meant to be permanent

Letting tax cuts for the top 2% expire as schedule would pay down the debt by $700 billion over the next 10 years