Chevy Volt wins Motor Trend Car Of The Year

[lne937s]

This doesn't belong here. It should be merged with the Volt Plug-In Hybrid thread

 

[garygid]

No, NOT merged.
But both VOLT topics should be moved to the "Other Electric Cars and Plug-in Hybrids" main topic.

 

[charlie1300]

AW... come on...give the guys at MT a break.... This is a real step forward for them.

I would have expected them to pick the Dodge Ram 1500, or maybe the Maserati Gran Turismo! :lol:

 

[DaveEV]

AW... come on...give the guys at MT a break.... This is a real step forward for them.

I'm pretty sure that MT gave the Prius COTY when the 2nd gen was released in 2004...

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/112_04_coy_win/index.html

Yep - so it's not out of line for them - I think they can recognize real advancement when it shows up. I suspect the race for COY between the Volt/Leaf was close - and could have gone either way. Perhaps if Nissan hadn't been so stingy with the demo drives - I don't think anyone has gotten a Leaf for an extended review period yet. Tough to hand out awards without living with a car for at least a couple days.

 

[lne937s]

I suspect the race for COY between the Volt/Leaf was close - and could have gone either way. Perhaps if Nissan hadn't been so stingy with the demo drives - I don't think anyone has gotten a Leaf for an extended review period yet. Tough to hand out awards without living with a car for at least a couple days.

No, Motor Trend didn't include the LEAF in the competition. MT has taken a very pro-Detroit stance lately.

 

[DaveEV]

No, Motor Trend didn't include the LEAF in the competition. MT has taken a very pro-Detroit stance lately.

How is that when nearly half the field were from Asian auto makers?

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/1101_2011_motor_trend_car_of_the_year_contenders_and_finalists/index.html

My original statement stands - I suspect they weren't able to get enough seat time in a LEAF to determine if it was COTY worthy or not.

 

[mynameisjim]

I charge my Volt every night when the rates are at their lowest.

According to the app on my iPhone, the car has gone 537 miles, 262 totally electric, for an MPG of 316.

I blame GM for those gas miles. Since I've had it I've burnt 0.07 gallons and 0.03 gallons on two separate days. I wouldn't have burnt that much, but I've been letting people test drive it and encouraging them to stomp on the pedal.

I want to revisit this as it seems to have slipped by. Are you saying you traveled 275 non-ev miles on .1 gallons of fuel? That comes out to a fuel economy of 2,750 mpg.

As I see it, if one drives a Volt like that it'll have lots of issues. Gasoline deteriorates in a short period of time, so your Volt could end up just like a poorly cared for weed trimmer or lawn mower. Or you can spend money on fuel stabilizers which can make it last up to a year.

 

[HPEV]

I am sad that the LEAF did not win as it is pure electric and the Volt still has an exhaust pipe. Maybe next year? I test drove the Volt and it is not a bad car but you still have to worry that the infernal combustion engine will kick in.

Driving a pure EV teaches you efficient driving and is quiet and pollution free. At the Nissan Ride & Drive, the representatives said that when driven really efficiently some drivers had gotten over 130 miles on a charge. That is under 200 Watt hours per mile which is darn good but not unbelievable for a vehicle of the LEAF's size and design.

 

[planet4ever]

I charge my Volt every night when the rates are at their lowest. According to the app on my iPhone, the car has gone 537 miles, 262 totally electric, for an MPG of 316. I blame GM for those gas miles. Since I've had it I've burnt 0.07 gallons and 0.03 gallons on two separate days. I wouldn't have burnt that much, but I've been letting people test drive it and encouraging them to stomp on the pedal.

I want to revisit this as it seems to have slipped by. Are you saying you traveled 275 non-ev miles on .1 gallons of fuel? That comes out to a fuel economy of 2,750 mpg.

As I see it, if one drives a Volt like that it'll have lots of issues. Gasoline deteriorates in a short period of time, so your Volt could end up just like a poorly cared for weed trimmer or lawn mower. Or you can spend money on fuel stabilizers which can make it last up to a year.

I probably should let Colin Summers respond himself, but we may have chased him away with all our Volt-bashing. I note from his blog that he must have had the Volt at least four days before his post here. I think perhaps he was just referring to two specific days of fuel consumption, not to the total used since he got the car.

As for gasoline deterioration, it is my understanding that is primarily due to more volatile components evaporating. GM has addressed that by keeping the fuel tank pressurized. I don't mean just a little hiss when you loosen the gas cap. You have to push a button and wait a few seconds for the system to depressurize before the car will let you loosen the cap. In addition, the car's computer runs the engine occasionally even if the battery doesn't really need it. I think that is so they can measure and log things like oil pressure, but perhaps also keep engine parts properly lubricated. Coincidentally, it also means the car will always use some gasoline.

 

[walterbays]

I probably should let Colin Summers respond himself, but we may have chased him away with all our Volt-bashing.

I hope not. I'm cheering for the Volt! But I'm buying a Leaf. I don't mind so much that GM marketing is bashing Leaf with "range anxiety." Their goal is to make money. Nissan marketing, who are also interested in making money, are not shy about pointing out that Leaf is a true electric vehicle, unlike Volt. There probably aren't too many people who are wavering between Volt and Leaf; once you know your driving patterns the choice is pretty clear.

As it happens my daily driving is usually 12-20 miles, I live in one of the EV Project cities to receive a charging infrastructure jump start, and we have a second ICE car, so a Leaf is a much better fit. But if my daily driving were 60-80 miles and there wouldn't likely be many public charging stations in my city, or if we had only one car, then a Volt might well be the better choice.

Government subsidies won't bring charging infrastructure everywhere. Beyond the initial proof of concept, most of the build out will rely on businesses calculating they can make a profit. That's more likely to happen in cities with large populations of Volts than Hummers. Even though they can add gasoline, Volt drivers will have incentive to find plug-ins. With recharging at work, Volt will work a lot more like an EV and less like a PHEV. Once the charging infrastructure begins to develop in a city, then Leafs and other true EV's will become suitable for a lot more drivers there.

So even though GM ads badmouth Leaf, I claim that the rivalry helps both by creating publicity, and that the competition which really matters is between EV plus pseudo-EV cars versus the Oil Forever crowd. E.g., Rush Limbaugh hated seeing Motor Trend pick Volt for very different reasons than folks here may feel slighted: http://blogs.motortrend.com/rush-judgment-5957.html

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I've got no beef with MT's pick. The Leaf won't ship until 2011 anyway.


I would have preferred to see GM market it more honestly, but getting an award for "first production Plug-In Hybrid" seems pretty well-deserved.

 

[palmermd]

I've got no beef with MT's pick. The Leaf won't ship until 2011 anyway.


I would have preferred to see GM market it more honestly, but getting an award for "first production Plug-In Hybrid" seems pretty well-deserved.

And your sure that the Volt will be delivered in 2010? They have not even built "job1" yet.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think the Volt is a step in the right direction and it will turn people on to the benefits of EV driving. what GM has done is very clever. they have created the EV without range anxiety simply because people simply dont know why they have range anxiety in the first place so its hard to market or engineer a product to address an invalid concern. so the Volt takes care of that difficult issue.

but as usual, they have put out a car i cannot consider. its simply too much money PERIOD. but GM knew that which is why they are producing "top tier" numbers. just as any high priced or exclusive vehicle is produced in limited numbers, so will the Volt.

the Leaf suits me much more because i am normal. mainstream and that is what the Leaf was aimed at. it also has the range issues as well, but Leaf took the other tactic and decided to engineer a car that addressed the range issues for the masses and to produce it in numbers that will address the range issues by word of mouth advertising with introductory pricing attractively positioned to insure a successful launch among the fence-sitting techie crowd.

so on the one hand GM addressed range anxiety with marketing, Nissan did it with engineering. (or B.S verses common sense)

the Prius was essentially backordered for over 3 years despite several increases in production quotas. i predict the Leaf to out do that record by more than 50%.

 

[IBELEAF]

the Prius was essentially backordered for over 3 years despite several increases in production quotas. i predict the Leaf to out do that record by more than 50%.

If that's the case then Leaf value will hold very well and it makes sense to buy it even more. I am curious though would would be the price of the "barely used" Leaf at a time when people will start getting them.

 

[mitch672]

I have to chime in here, having owned ALL 3 Prius generaitons.

Although the Prius was in great demand, when the NEW generation came out, the previous generations dropped in resale value A LOT.

Example: Sold my 2002 Prius (bought mid 2002) in mid 2003, before it was well known the Gen 2 Prius (2004 MY, was the first year for Gen 2) was comming out, not much mileage on it, took a %35 hit on the orignal price, with about 15K miles on it, very little wear and tear, 1 year old or so. I sold my Gen 1 Prius when I placed the order for my Gen 2, knowing I would take an even further beating if I waited.

So, even if the Leaf is in HUGE demand, you can count on previous MY's & generations going down in value, not up.

 

[TRONZ]

I've got no beef with MT's pick. The Leaf won't ship until 2011 anyway.


I would have preferred to see GM market it more honestly, but getting an award for "first production Plug-In Hybrid" seems pretty well-deserved.

And your sure that the Volt will be delivered in 2010? They have not even built "job1" yet.

Actually, if you scan over page 2 of this thread you will note that Volt deliveries have already begun. If you also look at the breaking news at the very top of this forums home page you will note that "at least 50 LEAFS will be delivered in Dec". I am very excited to see the first Volt and LEAF "in the wild"!!!

 

[palmermd]

Actually, if you scan over page 2 of this thread you will note that Volt deliveries have already begun.

These are not production cars, they are preproduction. These are not customer deliveries they are Customer Advisory Board member deliveries. These cars will be sent back to GM for disposal after the 3 month review/evaluation is complete.

http://gm-volt.com/chevrolet-volt-consumer-advisory-board-chevy-volt-cab-gm-volt-cab/

Yes, it is exciting about both of these cars, but I was only commenting that the poster said that Leaf wont be in customers hands by the end of 2010 so it should not have won the award and Volt should have. I wanted to point out that Leaf has completed "job1" and has built cars for customers and Volt has not. This puts Leaf in a better position to deliver by the end of the year than Volt thereby blowing his theory out of the water. I expect to see limited numbers of both vehicles in the hands of real customers by the end of the year.

 

[lne937s]

Actually, if you scan over page 2 of this thread you will note that Volt deliveries have already begun.

These are not production cars, they are preproduction. These are not customer deliveries they are Customer Advisory Board member deliveries. These cars will be sent back to GM for disposal after the 3 month review/evaluation is complete.

http://gm-volt.com/chevrolet-volt-consumer-advisory-board-chevy-volt-cab-gm-volt-cab/

Yes, it is exciting about both of these cars, but I was only commenting that the poster said that Leaf wont be in customers hands by the end of 2010 so it should not have won the award and Volt should have. I wanted to point out that Leaf has completed "job1" and has built cars for customers and Volt has not. This puts Leaf in a better position to deliver by the end of the year than Volt thereby blowing his theory out of the water. I expect to see limited numbers of both vehicles in the hands of real customers by the end of the year.

To follow up, Lance Armstrong already has a pre-production LEAF. The production Volt does not yet have EPA certification so not only has it not been delivered, it can't be delivered legally as a production model yet.

LEAF production is already happening. The only thing that would put LEAF deliveries behind Volt deliveries is intercontinental shipping.

 

[TomT]

At the purchase level, yes, I agree completely. But at the lease level, which is the same price as the base Leaf, it is actually a much better value than the Leaf.

Tom

but as usual, they have put out a car i cannot consider. its simply too much money PERIOD.

 

[TRONZ]

I really don't want to get down in the weeds with anyone but I thought the COTY question was "if people were driving these cars in the real world enough for a meaningful award"? In the end I guess people will define the question as it best fits their thinking.