Considering purchasing first time. Have some last questions please.

[erby123]

Bought a 2013 Leaf last month. I decided to go to a used car because it was a lot cheaper than a new one. No incentives, no rebates, nothing at all, that's the downside. But living in California, we can use the HOA lanes all the time and, the charging stations are extensive. Not sure how it is in other areas of the country.
Reading the User Guide, tho, there is a lot more that goes into the charging, the GOM than I realized. Heat, cold, both affect the GOM. And it is a GOM, not a true reflection of the miles left on the charge. That's probably my biggest gripe.

 

[LeftieBiker]

What is the month/year of manufacture, as shown on the driver's side door jamb sticker? The number of little white (and red on the bottom end) capacity bars showing?

 

[gshepherd]

1. Battery concerns: yes 30 kWh has a longer capacity warranty than the 24 kWh. The warranty is still based on "capacity bars" shown on the instrument cluster rather than actual percentage. History has shown the top-most capacity bar represents a larger chunk of the battery capacity than the remaining bars, sort of like a fuel gauge that stays pegged on Full longer than reality would dictate (otherwise, customers will likely complain if a gauge tells them the real truth - maybe Nissan followed similar logic there to reduce unnecessary service visits).

That you have the option to fund a battery replacement at pretty much cost is a nice option to have. It may not make absolute financial sense, but I'd rather have the option and know the cost up front, than not. Also, it's not like the car starts leaking oil or failing emission checks - just that you need to charge more often than when new... more like a gas tank that shrinks with age. I figure the 30 kWh LEAF will essentially become like a new 24 kWh LEAF near the end of the capacity warranty.

2. Interior color and cloth vs. leather. I debated this myself and after my Mazda, decided I didn't want a black leather interior again. Even in the Pacific Northwest, our summers can be warm. Leather at this level is usually just seating surfaces, with matching vinyl on the sides/backs. I don't think it wears as well as a durable fabric, especially at years 5-10. The modern fabrics, on the other hand, don't get as hot in the sun or as cold on a chilly day. No burned backs of legs. They also tend to clean up well with a damp microfiber cloth and some scrubbing. Scrub leather and you may pull the top coat off.

Heat gain of a dark interior can be mitigated with a quality sunshade and 3M Crystaline window tint. As well, the LEAF lets you start climate control remotely, which gives you something to do while standing in a checkout line. The A/C is powerful and surprisingly efficient at getting heat out.

Light interior lends an airy feel, but does show dirt considerably faster. Both interiors have a dark dashboard to reduce glare, but that is also the largest contributor to solar gain with the huge windshield. I wanted a light interior for the airy feel until I saw how dirty the new cars on the lot already were.

Dark interior is also a plus on a cold but sunny day - free cabin heating.

The SL has the leather and a few other niceties such as LED main beams (but relatively poor halogen high beams), auto headlights, HomeLink, and rear heated seats.

3. Lease vs. Buy. Much has been written here. I bought, using the "Fighting Chance" car buying method (google search it). End result was a huge amount of time saved and we got the best deal in the area at that time. Buying now we'd save even more. Leases can be attractive, but I don't like having to worry about damaging the interior if I make a Home Depot run, or the ticking clock of having to make a turn-in / buy-out decision in 36 months with potential damage assessment or excess mileage fees (or having paid for miles I didn't use). I'm also not tied down and can sell the car anytime, if I wanted. I can make modifications. The warranty covers the battery sufficiently, and the LEAF has proven to be reasonably reliable.

Hope that helps.

 

[blackbelt]

Hi. I am newly registered and will be a Leaf owner very soon.
I have been kicking around the purchase of an EV for quite some time. I currently own 4 vehicles. I had 5, but recently sold my 2013 Fiat 500 sport.
I was looking into a used Leaf and a used smart fortwo ED. Before you diss on the smart, i have owned 4 of them and currently have a 2013 with the ICE. Love the smart, it is a ball to drive.
I was actually ready to pull the trigger on a 2014 unsold 2014 smart ED convertible. I could have bought it for $16.8K, delivered. With the tax credits and PA rebate it would end up costing me around $8K (eventually). I almost grabbed it, then i saw an alternative.
A 2015 Leaf S with 20K miles. Still has 9 months of factory warranty. $10K.
So i puled the trigger and will await delivery, which is scheduled for 10/29. My dailey RT commute is 62 miles. My wifes is 42 miles. I thknk if she uses the Leaf on the cold days and i use it other times, we should be fine in terms of range. I have 2 AWD cars for when the snow flies.
I have a lot of reading to do....

 

[kzapanta]

Congrats on that deal Black Belt.

I don't think posters were dissing on the Fiat. They commented that for their family needs, they felt they needed something they felt was bigger/ safer.

Update for me. I have been getting some really good quotes on the purchase and lease. The Nissan in Dublin, Ca (Nor.Cal) has a great offer. I had thought I would wait until at least when the Bolt hits the dealerships but the deals are crazy good right now that I think I will pull the trigger at the end of this month.

Cheers all.

 

[kzapanta]

Oh, question Black Belt. The vehicle shipping cost I have gotten to ship from Nor. Cal to So. Cal is $389. Is that comparable to the cost to have your vehicle shipped to you?

 

[kzapanta]

Hi wonderful folks,

Your answers to my questions on this thread have been tremendously helpful and I wanted to update you on what your time in answering has netted. AND hopefully pass the information (good I hope) forward to the next person:

I have committed to lease. I have spent a good amount of hours the last 3 weeks and I still believe there is a strong possibility that there will be bigger discounts when the Bolt hits the road but I don't want to prolong this 'item on my to do list' with all the data I have collected for what could be half a year or more then having to redo a good deal of compiling data, process, and work again.
So this is the best deal I found: Please look it over and tell me if you think its GOOD or NOT?
Started the online process and will come into the dealership next week to sign and pick up. The one bad thing is its 115 miles away from home. But we thought it was an acceptable "price" for the long term deal we got.

3yr. 15,000 miles per year Lease SL model.
SL not S so please consider that:

$38,085 MSRP
$29,500 Dealer offer price (this is -$8585 straight from dealership thru their incentives and bonuses)
-$10,875 Lease total Nissan rebate ($7.5k Fed rebate pass back plus NMAC incentives )
=$18,625 Capitalized Cost not including the Ca. state rebate
Residual factor @ the standard .32% (MSRP x .032% = $12,187
money factor of .00003 this also is standard from NMAC which is translates to 0.7%

zero down
$240 a month without taxes. $260.8 with taxes.

I should get the Ca. refund of $2,500 whenever my application gets to the top and has funding.

I have tried uploading the offer document I was emailed but can't seem to do it on this forum format.


So more questions please for when I pick the car up and the long drive home:
1. The charging unit that will be included is a Lvl 1 charger. That means I can only plug to a normal socket (slow) or go to a charging station that will have a built in Lvl 2 charger or even Lvl 3 on a few stations, but I will need to have an active network account and card to use those chargers. Correct?
If I want to use Lvl 2 charger in the garage, either use the EVN upgrader or purchase a Lvl 2 charger online that is 30 Amps with a 40 amp fuse breaker installed due to the SL charger of 6.6w ??
2. Would it just be totally rude if I inspect the brand new battery to make sure its 100% new? If so, I have learned LeafSpy is the app to do that. Is that built in app of the car or a phone app. I buy?
3. I tried to get the trunk organizer, rubber floor mats, splash guard, and bumper guard added to the lease price but they said they can't because those are not depreciable items and that I will just need to buy it out of pocket and install it on my own. Sounds legit and fair right?
4. Since its a 115 mile drive home with the Leaf, we will have to lvl 2 charge on this trip. There is a Nissan dealership with a charger halfway. Is it customary to any Leaf owner that we can charge at any Nissan dealership and if so is it free?

 

[cwerdna]

1. The charging unit that will be included is a Lvl 1 charger. That means I can only plug to a normal socket (slow) or go to a charging station that will have a built in Lvl 2 charger or even Lvl 3 on a few stations, but I will need to have an active network account and card to use those chargers. Correct?
If I want to use Lvl 2 charger in the garage, either use the EVN upgrader or purchase a Lvl 2 charger online that is 30 Amps with a 40 amp fuse breaker installed due to the SL charger of 6.6w ??

No. The "trickle charge cable" that comes with the car is a level 1 EVSE. Yes, it's very slow. With the stock EVSE, the best it'll do is ~1.44 kW from the wall (12 amps * 120 volts = 1.44 kW). Probably 1.0 to 1.2 kW will make it into the battery at full speed. So, (unless nearly full) after 1 hour, 1.0 to 1.2 kWh would've been added to the battery. TonyWilliams believes there are ~26.5 kWh usable on a 30 kWh Leaf.

For L1 and L2 AC charging, the charger is on-board the car. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668. L1 and L2 EVSEs are just smart safety switches.

See also http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingprimer.pdf and https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000052074-basics-of-sae-j1772.

Some level 2 EVSEs and some DC fast chargers (many call it level 3, even though it's not correct) are not networked at all and thus don't require any account. I've used the former PLENTY of times and some of the latter. For DC fast charging, the external unit IS a charger and the car's on-board charger is bypassed.

There is Nissan No Charge to Charge (NCTC) but I don't know the details and whether it can be activated at/before leaving the dealer. Some more info at https://www.ez-charge.com/, http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/charging/no-charge-to-charge/ and https://www.nrgevgo.com/special-offers/nissan-no-charge-charge/. I've never been eligible for it.

You can get the L1 EVSE professionally upgraded via https://evseupgrade.com/. See http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=28 for the circuit you'd need. As for "Lvl 2 charger" at home or whatever, you're looking for a level 2 EVSE. If you got a 30 to 32 amp EVSE, it'd need to be on a 40 amp circuit.

If you got a lower amperage one, you wouldn't need as high an amperage a circuit. The ones at https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-12-to-15 require only a 15 or 20 amp circuit but charging speed would be lower. For say the LCS-20, it'd only be 16 amps at max for 16 amps * 240 volts = 3,840 watts = 3.84 kW. The Leaf would only charge at 3.84 kW on L2 at max with that.

If your house can accommodate a 40 amp circuit, I'd go for a 30 to 32 amp EVSE. Only go with a lower one if it cannot.

2. Would it just be totally rude if I inspect the brand new battery to make sure its 100% new? If so, I have learned LeafSpy is the app to do that. Is that built in app of the car or a phone app. I buy?

That's very odd. Rude? I dunno. Weird? Yes.

It is not built into any phone or car. You need to buy a compatible OBD2 dongle and at least get Leaf Spy Lite for Android to make sure your setup works (phone w/software with dongle as some are incompatible). I don't recall what Leaf Spy Lite can provide since I have Pro. I can't speak to the iOS version other than it also requires a compatible dongle.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Turbo3&hl=en has links to his Android apps.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/leafspy-pro/id967376861?mt=8 for iOS.

Some threads on the app:
iOS LeafSpy Pro Support: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19147
Leaf Spy Lite: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=14284
Leaf Spy and Pro: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285


I don't know why you'd care if you're leasing. The build month is on the sticker on the driver's side near the door jamb. And, you can verify the odometer has minimal miles.

4. Since its a 115 mile drive home with the Leaf, we will have to lvl 2 charge on this trip. There is a Nissan dealership with a charger halfway. Is it customary to any Leaf owner that we can charge at any Nissan dealership and if so is it free?

It's YMMV w/that. When DC FCing was free at many dealers, there was a HIGHLY variable policy as to who was welcome to charge for free. I can't speak to level 2 and how welcoming they are. I've been to some Nissan dealers to attempt to L2 charge and have sometimes found the spaces blocked or dealer's cars charging or in one case: one car charging and another customer car plugged in and blocking the space but done. Nobody knew who it belonged to.

I wouldn't depend on a dealer. Nissan, the company, in most parts of the US cannot own dealerships due to state franchise laws.

Download the Plugshare app and be prepared to use public L2 or DC FC, just in case. I don't know all the networks in So Cal, but up here Chargepoint, NRG evgo and Blink (they suck) are common. You may want to set up an account w/them first so you don't waste time trying to setup an account/calling them instead of charging. (I have accounts on all 3 of those.)

 

[LeftieBiker]

Contact the dealership where you'd need to charge (for about an hour) and ask them in advance for permission, for a certain time slot. Get it as an email if at all possible, so you have it in writing. I think that the main issue is that most Nissan dealerships have only one L-2 charging station, and use it for their own leafs and Leaf-driving customers. As for checking the pack, new Leafs don't always read 100% SOH, even when there is no issue with the pack. It wouldn't hurt to try, but don't turn the car down if it reads, say, 98%.

 

[cwerdna]

I think that the main issue is that most Nissan dealerships have only one L-2 charging station, and use it for their own leafs and Leaf-driving customers.

The closest dealer to me has at least 3 L2s. I remember I wanted to use one that was in a corner and a dealer car came by needing it. The other two might've been in use, as well.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think that the main issue is that most Nissan dealerships have only one L-2 charging station, and use it for their own leafs and Leaf-driving customers.

The closest dealer to me has at least 3 L2s. I remember I wanted to use one that was in a corner and a dealer car came by needing it. The other two might've been in use, as well.

I should have written "many" or "in the sticks, like where I live." ;-)

 

[GerryAZ]

The NCTC card that comes with the new car must be activated on line by setting up accounts with the various networks. If you use Plug Share to determine what networks are in your area and set up accounts with them ahead of time, it would just take a few minutes on line to activate the NCTC with those accounts. If you don't set up accounts ahead of time, it would just take a little longer to activate the card and create the accounts on line before leaving the dealer. Some of the networks (at least in Phoenix) have dropped L2 charging from the NCTC program--the card still works, but there is a charge by the minute. I would not worry about checking the battery on a new car with a 3-year lease, but I do recommend getting LEAF Spy Pro for all the information it gives.

Gerry

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

just a quick word on longevity. The larger battery pack will SIGNIFICANTLY improve longevity. Despite being only 25% larger, it will have a greater than 25% increase in distance as compared to cars like Steve Marsh's. Keep in mind, you also have a 5 year technology advantage as well.


Couple things I would keep in mind. Time is a degradation factor and Steve, despite living in near perfect climatic conditions only went that far because he did it such a short period of time. Its like the Tesla S. its not the distance, its the amount of time passed.

You can go a long way as well but battery management will be critical. Heat in your area will be a huge factor but that can be mitigated. If you can do it. I would not let your SOC get below say 15-20% (if you do its ok, just plug it in right away for at least a few hours) and don't charge above 80%.

Now the low SOC verses high SOC debate is not balanced. Due to range concerns, its ok to charge to 100% overnight if you are going to drive at least 40-50 miles that day. In many cases, this would be better than

1) letting car sit at work with a low SOC
2) charging it during the heat of the day to prevent low SOC.

in a nutshell; your battery wants to be at 50% SOC. well that is obviously not possible so you need to decide how much you should charge based on your expected need. So be it 80 to 40% or %75 to 25%. Its up to you. (for more than 50%, fully charge it at night to finish the charge in the early AM)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Leasing vs buying: as long as you are sure you want to keep the car, the incentives make buying better - IF you have enough income to qualify for the full $7500 tax credit. When you lease, Nissan gets the credit and applies it all as a larger downpayment. When you buy, you have to qualify to get the credit yourself. People like me pretty much have to lease because of this: I have enough savings and monthly income to buy the car, but because I'm retired my taxable income isn't that high. I do normally advise people to lease, but in your case the incentives make buying seem the better choice.

sorry but I am seeing a MUCH different set of numbers here because

1) Leasing gives you the full $7500 no matter what your income
2) Leasing is essentially a 3 year test drive at what is today, a VERY low financial commitment.
3) I don't know of anyone who decided to buy who paid anywhere near the full cost of the residual
4) to add to the above; you have 3 years of battery advancements on your side pushing the market value of your car downwards.

on the flip side.

there is fees associated with leasing but I have to ask... "how many people do you know of that paid any of those fees when they bought the lease or released another LEAF?

FYI; I know there were a LOT of people here who were sure they wanted to keep the LEAF and later found out that they simply did not know what they wanted or what they were in store for. This obviously does not apply to everyone as some people do have a very regimented life and can reliably predict their transportation needs.

 

[kzapanta]

cwerdna; Thank you again for your thorough answers with links. Lots of education on each of those links. Thanks sir.

1) Leasing gives you the full $7500 no matter what your income
2) Leasing is essentially a 3 year test drive at what is today, a VERY low financial commitment.
3) I don't know of anyone who decided to buy who paid anywhere near the full cost of the residual
4) to add to the above; you have 3 years of battery advancements on your side pushing the market value of your car downwards.

Well summarized, those are exactly the reasons why I decided to lease.
And to answer why I cared about the battery of the lease, because we plan to purchase it with the strong possibility of a 2nd discount on the residual in the future.
Both of our commutes are very predictable but we still will have a gas car for a while so there are no concerns of needing longer range.

Thanks folks. Now I'm thinking of joining the lot of you with personalized license plates.... I wonder if "Suck it oil Co.s" is taken?? lol

 

[LeftieBiker]

sorry but I am seeing a MUCH different set of numbers here because

1) Leasing gives you the full $7500 no matter what your income
2) Leasing is essentially a 3 year test drive at what is today, a VERY low financial commitment.
3) I don't know of anyone who decided to buy who paid anywhere near the full cost of the residual
4) to add to the above; you have 3 years of battery advancements on your side pushing the market value of your car downwards.

Dave, I suggested buying in that case because of the incentives to buy, and because the poster seemed sure he wanted to keep the car. Given those parameters, I'd do it again. I'm not sure what 'different set of numbers' you mean. I wrote pretty much the same thing, and you are apparently arguing with both of us. ;-) BTW, it isn't a good idea to argue that residuals will be low with discounts at the end of this lease cycle, based on what's happened i the last two years. NMAC has terminated that program. They may be low, or they may be completely undiscounted.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

sorry but I am seeing a MUCH different set of numbers here because

1) Leasing gives you the full $7500 no matter what your income
2) Leasing is essentially a 3 year test drive at what is today, a VERY low financial commitment.
3) I don't know of anyone who decided to buy who paid anywhere near the full cost of the residual
4) to add to the above; you have 3 years of battery advancements on your side pushing the market value of your car downwards.

Dave, I suggested buying in that case because of the incentives to buy, and because the poster seemed sure he wanted to keep the car. Given those parameters, I'd do it again. I'm not sure what 'different set of numbers' you mean. I wrote pretty much the same thing, and you are apparently arguing with both of us. ;-) BTW, it isn't a good idea to argue that residuals will be low with discounts at the end of this lease cycle, based on what's happened i the last two years. NMAC has terminated that program. They may be low, or they may be completely undiscounted.

we can always go both ways on predicting the future but I believe the odds are greatly in my favor. Since the OP has already verified he has decided to lease based on the same criteria I have listed above, this is all a moot point.

there will be some who could benefit by purchasing but I have found that group to be very small and the commitment to be very large. The sheer number of LEAFers who have sworn off Nissan for life is a good indication especially when you compare the percentage of buyers to leasers.

Now my list is only "things to consider" when weighing the options but we can also look at why we don't want to buy

1) don't qualify for the full tax credit
2) payments higher
3) locked into the current technology
4) underestimated range needs, public charging support, etc...

now some of these don't apply to 2nd timers. We should all be pretty well aware of how the LEAFs range covers our needs including degradation since we have been thru it at least once.

Finally I think you are missing one very key point. The huge incentives are not restricted to buyers only. I know a guy who just leased an SV for under $200 a month...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Finally I think you are missing one very key point. The huge incentives are not restricted to buyers only. I know a guy who just leased an SV for under $200 a month...

The buying incentives are national, while the leasing incentives seem to be very local.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Finally I think you are missing one very key point. The huge incentives are not restricted to buyers only. I know a guy who just leased an SV for under $200 a month...

The buying incentives are national, while the leasing incentives seem to be very local.

that would be somewhat unusual. realize that the various force of the market in specific areas may cause some differences but I always found them to be small. as far as good lease deals, I haven't tracked them very closely but they seem to be coming from all over

 

[LeftieBiker]

as far as good lease deals, I haven't tracked them very closely but they seem to be coming from all over

Not from Upstate NY, they aren't. Nor from Vermont or Western Mass.