Electrical line noise while charging at 240V

[TomT]

Yep, I actually built it in to my large Blink metal junction box since there is a lot of room in there. It is a L network. The two toroids are bifliar wound with both legs of the 240 passing through them (to prevent core saturation). I did not put any capacitors (C1 and C2 are each 20uf and .1uf 250VAC Mains Capacitors in parallel) on the AC in side because I did not want to shunt data from my TED and Insteon systems to ground. I'll try to draw it below but I'm not much good with text schematics (grin)! I should say that this violates more codes and best design practices than I have room to write here so all the normal disclaimers apply! Consider this just a laboratory proof of performance experiment! However, it did completely eliminate both the noise problem and the interference with my TED and Insteon power line carrier current systems...

                         L1                       L2
ACin1   ----------- potted coil------- toroid coil ------------ Blink
                                                                  |
                                                                 ---  C1
                                                                  |
Neutral  ---------------------------------------------------------Blink
                                                                  |
                                                                 ---   C2
                                                                  |
ACin2--------------potted coil --------torrid coil ----------------Blink
                     L1                         L2

TomT,
So, you added the filter in your house, not your LEAF?
You put it between the EVSE and your house's wiring?

 

[hill]

I had some Nissan Engineers out at my house doing power quality survey tests about a month ago and asked them about this issue. They indicated that you should contact your dealer about the issue if you have it. I told them that several here had, to no avail, and he indicated that you should push them and ask them to contact corporate about it. While there is no TSB, this is definitely an issue they know about.

Well, add me to the list of people who have this problem - but never realized it until recently. I had someone familiar with the problem stop by and he suggested we check my panel and sure enough there was noise while charging. In my case it was subtle enough I never really noticed it, but it's definitely there. I'm now going to try and get it resolved as well. If I make any progress I'll post back how.

WELCOME !! Misery loves company!
:? :lol:
Or should I say, 'get in line'. As suggested (since my dealer either hasn't or won't call corporate ... though they SAY they did) by garygid - I've written corporate a few days ago. I guess I won't hop on one leg holding my breath.

But see ... THIS is the unknown - that many charge at night, so they have the issue and don't know it. Or, they simply don't (YET) own the type of electronics that make the noise. This is like a teeny piece of a metal splinter lodged way deep ... enough to irritate month after month, but not enough to go to the doctor .... YET. I've been ready for the doctor for almost a year now.
.

 

[wsbca]

But see ... THIS is the unknown - that many charge at night, so they have the issue and don't know it. Or, they simply don't (YET) own the type of electronics that make the noise. This is like a teeny piece of a metal splinter lodged way deep ... enough to irritate month after month, but not enough to go to the doctor .... YET. I've been ready for the doctor for almost a year now.
.

Exactly...the noise comes from my solar inverter, which is normally off by the time the car starts charging. When I do charge during daylight, the buzzing occurs, and I fear I'm doing long term damage to the inverter, so I avoid it, but sometimes I need to go ahead and charge. Super irritating. Dealer said no TSB, and had no further interest.

 

[QueenBee]

Or should I say, 'get in line'. As suggested (since my dealer either hasn't or won't call corporate ... though they SAY they did) by garygid - I've written corporate a few days ago. I guess I won't hop on one leg holding my breath.

Maybe try a different dealer? Literally all I did was mention this casually (It wasn't even on my service order) and my tech said, ah yeah I'll need to call Nissan about it but its a known issue and the fix is replacing the charger. Took some time to hear back but then he had to verify the version number of the charger with the computer, then scheduled an onsite visit, then waited for the new charger, and now I'm scheduled next Tuesday for it to be installed and for the few hours I'll have their LEAF loaner. A few weeks total, but virtually not effort needed on my part and my tech updated me every few days.

 

[QueenBee]

Dealer said no TSB, and had no further interest.

Don't accept that... Either switch to a dealer that wants your business or insist that they work to resolve this issue.

 

[GeekEV]

Maybe try a different dealer? Literally all I did was mention this casually (It wasn't even on my service order) and my tech said, ah yeah I'll need to call Nissan about it but its a known issue and the fix is replacing the charger. Took some time to hear back but then he had to verify the version number of the charger with the computer, then scheduled an onsite visit, then waited for the new charger, and now I'm scheduled next Tuesday for it to be installed and for the few hours I'll have their LEAF loaner. A few weeks total, but virtually not effort needed on my part and my tech updated me every few days.

Nice! Please try to see if you can gather as much information from your dealer on what they had to do to get it authorized, etc., and post them here for the rest of us!

Good luck!

 

[eMaS]

getting my updated charger next Tuesday. Will take a couple of hours to replace. But they soon will have practice.
Hurray

 

[TEG]

I am watching this thread with interest, as mine ( VIN < 1000 ) has the problem too.
Waiting for a good time to approach a dealer and see if they are willing to help.

I have had poor luck trying to use the dealer where I bought the car, so I plan to try a different dealer.

 

[QueenBee]

Please try to see if you can gather as much information from your dealer on what they had to do to get it authorized, etc., and post them here for the rest of us!

For my tech he talked to Bill Grossi, after calling him he verified that my charger was affected/old version by connecting my car to the laptop (Apparently at VIN ~1500 the new chargers were used but at ~2100 I got the old revision), then came out to my house to verify he could hear the issue, verify what EVSE I had, and verified it was on a dedicated circuit. He even brought their LEAF loaner with him so I didn't have to go back to the dealership. He did whatever paperwork/contacting that needed to be done to approve the new charger and about a week later I got a call that the charger had arrived and scheduled the appointment (Didn't take him on on the loaner offer).

Aaron at Nissan of Eastside has been amazing and did all the work after just casually mentioning this issue to him. I didn't have to insist that he research the issue, get approval, call Nissan, do anything except sit back and let him take care of it.

 

[QueenBee]

My new charger installed:

Haven't picked it up yet but the LEAF loaner does NOT have crackling at my panel when charging

 

[hill]

Saahh weeet!

My Leaf's in the shop as of yesterday ... as I try to turn up the flame under their feet to get this resolved. Here's to hoping .

EDIT:

ok, the tech came out to our home ... verified the buzzing poppng crackling snapping rice crisp sounds, and they supposedly will be passing that verification to the all mighty powers of corporate ... then awaiting further instructions.
:?

(next day) EDIT:
HEY . . . finally! Nissan will finally get me a noise free charger. Yay! The shop says they may end up having to pull one off the manufacturing production line, as they're not something they ever intend on warehousing ... and THAT could be weeks away. I'm finally not grinding my teeth!

 

[LEAFer]

Cross-posting ... interesting .... from here ...

Another update about my Schneider issue: the 2 techs from Nissan were here at my house again today, armed with more test equipment this time. They brought a DVM with a switchable filter in it, to eliminate high frequency readings. Without the filter, my Leaf, and 2 other Leafs they brought here today, reads ~25ma of current on the ground wire while charging. With the filter turned on, which mainly filters out >1 KHz, the readings were almost zero. So, it isn't really a ground fault we are seeing, but high frequency garbage, which is causing the Schneider unit to give a false fault condition. What really blew my mind was that both the other 2012 Leafs had almost exactly the same readings, and tripped my Schneider EVSE, while the other 2 Leafs I have tested here at my house, one 2011 and one 2012, were just fine, with ~2ma showing on my DVM. It appears that the circuit that Schneider has chosen to use is not only more sensitive, 5ma trip instead of 20ma like everyone else, but it also does not sharply filter out the high frequency components feeding back out of the charger on to the AC. ......

 

[wwhitney]

Question: I recall someone earlier in this thread speculating that the high frequency noise from the charger of an affected LEAF could be harmful to solar inverters. Is this true?

My situation: we got our LEAF April 1, 2011. I've never noticed any noise while charging because we charge at night. But recently I decided to check, and when the LEAF is charging, there is an extra high frequency noise at my electrical panel (on top of the 60 Hz hum). And next month our solar panels are going to be installed, with the Enphase microinverters. So if there is a risk of damage to the inverters, I'd like to get the charger updated.

Thanks,
Wayne

 

[TomT]

It seems very odd and suspect to me that they would not plan on warehousing a spare charger... Are they really THAT confident that one will never fail?!

HEY . . . finally! Nissan will finally get me a noise free charger. Yay! The shop says they may end up having to pull one off the manufacturing production line, as they're not something they ever intend on warehousing ... and THAT could be weeks away.

 

[QueenBee]

It seems very odd and suspect to me that they would not plan on warehousing a spare charger... Are they really THAT confident that one will never fail?!

HEY . . . finally! Nissan will finally get me a noise free charger. Yay! The shop says they may end up having to pull one off the manufacturing production line, as they're not something they ever intend on warehousing ... and THAT could be weeks away.

Yeah, especially since they are replacing them "frequently" for this problem. I forget exactly how many days mine took but it arrived the following week.

 

[hill]

YAAAYYYY ! ! !
Tomorrow is the big day. After one year and one month of line noise . . . Nissan is finally doing the right thing. I get to take our Leaf into the dealer - and when we get it back (in 3 days?!?) - we'll have a noise free charger. Woo Hoo ! ! !
been a long time comin' . . . . . . . I hate to be the squeeky wheel . . . but at least it's finally getting taken care of.

 

[LEAFer]

YAAAYYYY ! ! !

:!:

 

[padamson1]

There most definitely a good amount of noise on my house panel when I charge, either the EVSE or perhaps even the inverter in the car. UPB devices (which use Powerline Communication) that function fine when the charger is not in use, do not work as soon as I start charging with my Ingineer modified EVSE or my 110v EVSE from Clipper Creek.

 

[TomT]

If the industrial strength filter I added had not eliminated the problem, I likely would still be pursuing it too... Clearly there is an issue and in most cases, Nissan is choosing to simply sweep it under the rug... It's rather like ignoring the elephant in the room.

Tomorrow is the big day. After one year and one month of line noise . . . Nissan is finally doing the right thing. I get to take our Leaf into the dealer - and when we get it back (in 3 days?!?) - we'll have a noise free charger. Woo Hoo ! ! !
been a long time comin' . . . . . . . I hate to be the squeeky wheel . . . but at least it's finally getting taken care of.

 

[QueenBee]

If the industrial strength filter I added had not eliminated the problem, I likely would still be pursuing it too... Clearly there is an issue and in most cases, Nissan is choosing to simply sweep it under the rug... It's rather like ignoring the elephant in the room.

They are ignoring it by not issuing a recall/proactively fixing them all but I don't think it's fair to say they are ignoring it and definitely not "in most cases". As I've said unless other people don't have dealer techs as good as mine I literally mentioned it to him while doing the software upgrades and he researched it, needed to verify that my charger was in fact an early revision, and verify my home charging situation, and then it was replaced. It was very easy and definitely not ignored.