Electrical line noise while charging at 240V

[Christopher]

Hey LEAFer, so do these visits come at night under the cover of darkness? Do you have to apply masking tape to a window in the shape of an "X"? Or maybe that would be the shape of a zero given Nissan's LEAF marketing?

More like "Z" ... mark of the Zerro ! :lol: Ole ! :lol:

Ah, that makes sense! I'll try the "Z" on my window tonight... and let you all know if and when I get a visit... of course if you never hear from me again, let that be a warning to you! ;-)

 

[hill]

Hey LEAFer, so do these visits come at night under the cover of darkness? Do you have to apply masking tape to a window in the shape of an "X"? Or maybe that would be the shape of a zero given Nissan's LEAF marketing?

More like "Z" ... mark of the Zerro ! :lol: Ole ! :lol:

Ah, that makes sense! I'll try the "Z" on my window tonight... and let you all know if and when I get a visit... of course if you never hear from me again, let that be a warning to you! ;-)

Yea . . . a "Z" . . . that's it.
as in ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
(funkie electrical hum during charging)

:lol:

 

[Christopher]

Well, I've received a couple of phone calls from Nissan and a visit is now scheduled for late this week. I guess "Z" was the right symbol to display. ;-)

 

[LEAFer]

Well, I've received a couple of phone calls from Nissan and a visit is now scheduled for late this week. I guess "Z" was the right symbol to display. ;-)

Progress Finally ! Now ... waiting for Zolutions ... (Thanks for the update.)

Anyone else get contacted yet ?

 

[Christopher]

Alright-y, a small pack of friendly Nissan engineers just left my place after checking everything out and performing a number of tests. They also tried charging the LEAF they brought along that includes a new part (the EMI filter, I believe).

The results? Yup, I have got electrical line noise when charging at 240V! ;-)

They were able to examine my circuits with an oscilloscope as well as perform a number of tests to try to determine what role if any the modified EVSE plays -- just to be able to rule it out. (Yes, they are aware of these units and of course can't endorse them. Plus they couldn't offer anything similar due to our national electrical standards that require hard-wiring and mounting 240V EVSE's. In other words, it's not code-compliant, but we know this.)

They have seen this issue before but say it's not widespread -- just depends on the specific situation. (I also suspect it depends on whether someone is the type to notice and care about such noise.)

Most importantly to me though:
1) I don't have anything wrong with my wiring and there is no arcing at my electrical panel.
2) Their LEAF with the new part charges via my modified EVSE at 240V without generating any line noise. It's quiet at my desktop monitor and quiet at my electrical panel. Yay!
3) There's no inherent danger signified by this line noise and I could continue to charge this way if I want. (Noting of course that it's not code-compliant and that dryer cords are more brittle and not meant to be frequently plugged/unplugged.)

I take this to mean that there will eventually be a fix provided. They did say that they expect to get back to me eventually. In the meantime, I won't be charging at 240V except in rare circumstances when I really need a faster recharge since I find the noise to be pretty irritating.

So there you go. I guess I can take down the "Z" from the window. Just glad the "smoking man" didn't show up. ;-)

 

[GeekEV]

Wow, that's great news. I wonder if they'll replace the EMI filter in all of the LEAFs just for good measure, or only if it bothers you... Of course, we shouldn't all go asking our dealer about it just yet - I'm sure they haven't finalized anything yet. But it bodes well that there will likely be a service bulletin to fix it in the future.

BTW, do you actually use your drier circuit for your drier too? If not, you could just leave the adapter plugged in all the time and disconnect at the L6-20 (which is designed for frequent plug/unplug cycles).

 

[Christopher]

BTW, do you actually use your drier circuit for your drier too? If not, you could just leave the adapter plugged in all the time and disconnect at the L6-20 (which is designed for frequent plug/unplug cycles).

Yup, I do use my dryer on that circuit, though not as much as the EVSE. So yeah, when this issue eventually gets fixed, I'll minimize how often I plug/unplug and even still use 120V when I'm not concerned about how long the recharge will take. (Ah, if only we had a 6.6kW charger on board....)

 

[palmermd]

good to hear they have a solution ready to be implemented.

 

[LEAFer]

2) Their LEAF with the new part charges via my modified EVSE at 240V without generating any line noise. It's quiet at my desktop monitor and quiet at my electrical panel. Yay!

Great news ... now let's see what happens at my place on their third visit next Wednesday.

IMHO ... I still advise ... if you have expensive electronic "toys" and notice something like what's described here ... unplug them while the (non-EMI-modified) LEAF is charging on 240V. This may not be practical and a PITA ... but better safe than broken toys.

Thanks, Christoper, for the update.

 

[garygid]

Error Reminder:
According to Code, a properly featured 240v EVSE ... (like Bkink)
CAN BE made, and is legal, for plug-in use (but for indoor use only).

 

[Ingineer]

This is good to hear. As I mentioned before, there really is no way an EVSE can generate any significant noise unless there is a fault, and if that was the case I doubt seriously it could still charge.

The noise is likely switching noise from the on-board Nihicon charger's PFC front end. It can be fixed with adequate filtering, but it sounds like even with the external filter block, something was/is inadequate.

The radiated noise may leak into sensitive and/or poorly shielded circuits, but it's highly unlikely that it will affect reliability or damage any appliances or electronic equipment.

-Phil

 

[hill]

With the teeny segment of us here that actually represent just a fraction of Leafers ... times the majority of Leafers, Nissan MUST necessarily come up with a fix. The # of cars causing interference will only continue to increase. This kind of interference is exactly why on the back of virtually every electronic device it states that said device must not cause RF interference. The car's charger (built-in) is evidently not FCC compliant, until it's filtered better

.

.

 

[Herm]

The car's charger (built-in) is evidently not FCC compliant, until it's filtered better
.

You dont need to specify built-in, its the only charger associated with a Leaf.. its probably a defective filter or charger, and specific to this car only.. or it could be a mass recall issue followed by an upgrade to the 6.6kw charger

It may just require running the EVSE line thru a choke.

 

[Christopher]

The car's charger (built-in) is evidently not FCC compliant, until it's filtered better
.

You dont need to specify built-in, its the only charger associated with a Leaf.. its probably a defective filter or charger, and specific to this car only.. or it could be a mass recall issue followed by an upgrade to the 6.6kw charger

It may just require running the EVSE line thru a choke.

No, it's not car-specific. That was a new part Nissan tried at my place. As I mentioned earlier, the Nissan folk believe it's something that only occurs in specific situations. They spoke of many variables. I can't speak to the validity of that though.

As an aside, I'm also one to use the phrase "on-board or built-in charger" just to help propagate the understanding that the external EVSE is not the charger.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

2) Their LEAF with the new part charges via my modified EVSE at 240V without generating any line noise. It's quiet at my desktop monitor and quiet at my electrical panel. Yay!

Great news ... now let's see what happens at my place on their third visit next Wednesday.

IMHO ... I still advise ... if you have expensive electronic "toys" and notice something like what's described here ... unplug them while the (non-EMI-modified) LEAF is charging on 240V. This may not be practical and a PITA ... but better safe than broken toys.

Thanks, Christoper, for the update.

Your electric utility and various grid spikes, brownouts, lightning hits to power lines and other glitches are a far more serious threat to your electronics. Put the electronics that you care about on surge protectors and noise filters if needed. The electronic noise from the LEAF can be annoying but it won't harm your equipment - well unless you have a big audio system, put it on an input with no signal and crank the volume all the way up... But turning the volume all the way up on your audio system will damage it in any case, with or without the LEAF. Remember what happens when you have the volume all the way and you touch just the center pin of an RCA audio jack? LOUD 60 Hz Hummm!!!

I would not worry about unplugging electronics while LEAF charging any more than I would while running a hair dryer, clothes dryer, electric range, electric cooktop, pool pump, garbage disposal or any number of other devices that will put far nastier surges on your home wiring than the LEAF. The particular frequency profile of the LEAF may be more annoying in audio devices than other devices, but it's not going to harm them.

 

[Christopher]

Your electric utility and various grid spikes, brownouts, lightning hits to power lines and other glitches are a far more serious threat to your electronics. Put the electronics that you care about on surge protectors and noise filters if needed. The electronic noise from the LEAF can be annoying but it won't harm your equipment...

... any number of other devices that will put far nastier surges on your home wiring than the LEAF

Just a reminder that the devices I was hearing the noise from were already on surge protectors and noise filters and a newer noise filter I bought didn't help either. (And my electrical panel was emitting audible noise as well.)

Anyway, yes, even the Nissan guys agreed after examining the line noise that my equipment wasn't in danger. Just my sanity from hours of buzzing. ;-)

I think others just want to play it safe though.

 

[TomT]

Well, I have the same interference problem and symptoms that the others have reported. Almost a carbon copy in fact!

I'd chosen to basically live with it until now, but now that I know that it IS an identifiable and definitive issue, and fixable, I trust that Nissan will follow up on this with those of us who are dealing with it when they have the parts and fix available.

 

[LEAFfan]

We have three remote telephones and I've noticed a Hummmmm when using the phone. Has anyone had this happen with the Blink? It does it whether it's charging or just plugged in but in sleep mode.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The car's charger (built-in) is evidently not FCC compliant, until it's filtered better
.

You dont need to specify built-in, its the only charger associated with a Leaf.. its probably a defective filter or charger, and specific to this car only.. or it could be a mass recall issue followed by an upgrade to the 6.6kw charger

It may just require running the EVSE line thru a choke.

No, it's not car-specific. That was a new part Nissan tried at my place. As I mentioned earlier, the Nissan folk believe it's something that only occurs in specific situations. They spoke of many variables. I can't speak to the validity of that though.

As an aside, I'm also one to use the phrase "on-board or built-in charger" just to help propagate the understanding that the external EVSE is not the charger.

Bravo, you are one of the minority that actually understand why it is wrong to call an EVSE a charger other than the fact that it is not a charger in any way. People will continue to confuse this until proper terminology is used, even charge cable or charge dock

 

[TomT]

I tell people that it is essentially just a smart switch that turns the power to the vehicle on and off...