Fan only on low impact of -5miles?

[EVNation]

I looked into the more and actually read the manual . What it looks like to me is there is no way to turn off the heating system if the fan is on. There is a AC/Heating On/Off button, but that shuts off the fans. There is a AC button that you can use to independently turn off the AC. But not for the heat. Prius deals with this by having the temp go to "MAX COLD" then it won't try to heat. However, Leaf bottoms out at 60 degrees (manual says 64 but mine goes to 60). Manual also warns not to have internal temp set lower then outside temp without AC since it will "prevent the temperature from being controlled properly".

On a Non-EV this wouldn't matter. Heating is free basically. But on the Mini-E we found heating had a huge impact on Range. It is a ceramic heater that is basically like running a hair dryer on high heat. On Mini it was a larger impact than AC.

So seems like one of two things here. If you turn on fan and crank down temp to 60, either:

1. It really doesn't have much impact but the software dings you -5 miles.
2. It is actually running the heater and has an impact of some significance.

If you are really pressed for juice I guess it is fans off and outside vent in to cool or open the window. It might be nice outside. If you are going fast though that would impact resistance.

More learnings to come.

-Jeff

 

[EVDRIVER]

I looked into the more and actually read the manual . What it looks like to me is there is no way to turn off the heating system if the fan is on. There is a AC/Heating On/Off button, but that shuts off the fans. There is a AC button that you can use to independently turn off the AC. But not for the heat. Prius deals with this by having the temp go to "MAX COLD" then it won't try to heat. However, Leaf bottoms out at 60 degrees (manual says 64 but mine goes to 60). Manual also warns not to have internal temp set lower then outside temp without AC since it will "prevent the temperature from being controlled properly".

On a Non-EV this wouldn't matter. Heating is free basically. But on the Mini-E we found heating had a huge impact on Range. It is a ceramic heater that is basically like running a hair dryer on high heat. On Mini it was a larger impact than AC.

So seems like one of two things here. If you turn on fan and crank down temp to 60, either:

1. It really doesn't have much impact but the software dings you -5 miles.
2. It is actually running the heater and has an impact of some significance.

If you are really pressed for juice I guess it is fans off and outside vent in to cool or open the window. It might be nice outside. If you are going fast though that would impact resistance.

More learnings to come.

-Jeff

Let's apply very basic logic, if the heat is on you will feel it, period. There would be a min kw draw of 2K or more if cold. I'll also once again harp on the point that a real-time kw meter on the pack would answer this question, it is so easy to watch things change and to estimate loads. There may be auto indicators of load but the climate should show the actual load. This is what is so stupid about not having the addition of single source metering and it's going to become more and more evident as people come to realize the shortcomings of the computer and the broad readings on consumption. Think about this, if the LEaf has an SOC for capacity as well that is 1% per mile as estimated. It is easy to understand variations on that after a bit of use and under different conditions, very easy. It is also easy on a consumption meter to turn on the AC or heat and see how the increase as a percentage impacts the entire consumption. What one does know is exactly who much total power is used and how much total capacity is left at a high level of accuracy.

 

[garygid]

There is a Power Usage screen, with three kW usage meters on it: Traction, Climate, and Other.

Do you find it difficult to use?

To me, it seems fairly informative, and relatively easy to use.

Just one Total-Power meter (the sum of these three) would be harder to use, for me, and I can just add these three numbers in my head if that proves to be necessary.

 

[Nubo]

My knowledge of cars is close to zero - but I don't think Leaf has an AC clutch.

Nope. The AC is driven by electricity (like Prius and some other hybrids) - it should be a variable speed compressor so there is no cycling involved. It will simply adjust it's speed to meet demand.

Ok folks, then adjust your examination as needed. I don't have a LEAF sitting here, unfortunately. My point remains -- the car may be running more than just the fan, even if you haven't explicitly called for it. It is not unheard of.

 

[EVNation]

There is a Power Usage screen, with three kW usage meters on it: Traction, Climate, and Other.

Do you find it difficult to use?

To me, it seems fairly informative, and relatively easy to use.

Just one Total-Power meter (the sum of these three) would be harder to use, for me, and I can just add these three numbers in my head if that proves to be necessary.

Good idea. Forgot to check that out. Interesting experiment with that. This morning a bit cold (for us) at 51 deg. Got in and turned on with all climate off. Temp at 60 deg max cold. No usage. Click one fan notch up, no AC or auto. Bar starts rising and eventually settles at 3 kw (which seems a lot to me). So I hit AC on. Bar drops right off to zero. Turn off AC, then drive around. Climate control stays at showing zero.

I am not sure if that initial hit was just some kind of start up or if it was initially firing up heating or what. I will do more tests on impact of heating.

But the notice "turn of climate control for +6" miles stayed on the whole time and it subtracted 6 from my range (up from 5 when I first noticed this). Even when climate usage showed 0. So I think software just subtracts off the estimate regardless of what the actual draw is. Looks like a bug.

 

[Nubo]

I looked into the more and actually read the manual . What it looks like to me is there is no way to turn off the heating system if the fan is on. There is a AC/Heating On/Off button, but that shuts off the fans. There is a AC button that you can use to independently turn off the AC. But not for the heat. Prius deals with this by having the temp go to "MAX COLD" then it won't try to heat. However, Leaf bottoms out at 60 degrees (manual says 64 but mine goes to 60). Manual also warns not to have internal temp set lower then outside temp without AC since it will "prevent the temperature from being controlled properly".

On a Non-EV this wouldn't matter. Heating is free basically. But on the Mini-E we found heating had a huge impact on Range. It is a ceramic heater that is basically like running a hair dryer on high heat. On Mini it was a larger impact than AC.

So seems like one of two things here. If you turn on fan and crank down temp to 60, either:

1. It really doesn't have much impact but the software dings you -5 miles.
2. It is actually running the heater and has an impact of some significance.

If you are really pressed for juice I guess it is fans off and outside vent in to cool or open the window. It might be nice outside. If you are going fast though that would impact resistance.

Presumably, both the AC and heat are controlled by relays and it wouldn't be insurmountable to route the trigger inputs through cabin switches. Then you could have your fan without the "collateral damage", assuming that HAL didn't throw a fit. :lol:

I'd thought about doing that on my RX-8 but having fan available without AC on face-only setting turned out to be enough for me.

 

[planet4ever]

assuming that HAL didn't throw a fit. :lol:

As a retired IBMer, I object. Everyone knows that H.A.L. was one letter-step below I.B.M. What we have here is embedded software from that Redmond upstart. I forget - what's its name again?

 

[TomT]

How do we know it is Microsoft software and not something in house from Nissan?

What we have here is embedded software from that Redmond upstart. I forget - what's its name again?