First day with my Leaf, first low battery warning

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
mkjayakumar said:
Your driving efficiency of 3.2 miles/kWh in now way can be termed as conservative. That is almost equivalent to driving an ICE as if you stole it - in my books. It is obvious that the highway part of your trip would have been in the 2s. Leaf can easily beat most of the ICEs out there reaching and cruising at 80 mph, but you ended up consuming 4 times the power at 40 mph, or twice (approx) as much at 60 mph .

IMHO, unless you are running heat anything less than 4 miles/kWh is driving inefficiently for no apparent gain in time. Drop your ICE habits and you will be see you can go much farther. You could have done this trip even without all those in between trickle charges, if you had maintained a 4+ and that is not too difficult.

Wow, that's quite a welcome. You obviously have some experience in stealing ICE vehicles.

Re-read my posts. There is no 3.2 miles/kWh mentioned anywhere. Please stop trolling, then we can have a conversation.
 
ksnogas2112 said:
What you saw on the GOM going up your hill is expected. There's a 55 mph hill here that will knock 10 miles off the GOM if you're already at 55. If you catch the light red and accelerate up the hill then I loose 15 miles. And that's why I take the service road that goes around it. Takes an extra couple minutes and I have to dodge deer but worth the effort in exchange for mileage.

I'm not driving 55 on that hill, it's a residential neighborhood. I'm driving about 15-20mph there. There are deers that cross very frequently and I would be crazy to drive any faster than that.
One crossed right in front of me yesterday actually, if I had been any driving faster I would have hit it.
That hill is only 0.5 mile, but as I said, extremely steep. The real-time miles per kWh indicator is very close to zero even at 15-20 mph only.
 
davewill said:
There are two theories about why the numbers for these two are slightly off. One is that the center console may use the GPS for distance, which tends to underestimate the actual distance traveled, which would give a higher mpk number. My personal theory is that it's because the dash display truncates results. If you watch carefully it becomes apparent the dash display truncates values above 8mpk while the center display will happily display double digit mpk values. Reset them both, then go down a hill to see what I mean. The dash will show 8mpk, while the center console might show 15mpk or so. Anyway, the upshot is that the center console usually shows 0.1 mpk higher than the dash. Most people here report the number from the dash. I personally like to reset the center console each morning since it gives me a running history display so that I can compare today to each of the last several days. I let the dash display be my "llifetime" display.

Thanks. Yes, the GPS would definitely underestimate distance a lot with the hills I drive to/from home almost every trip I make.
How do I reset each of the miles/kWh values ?

When I reset the trip meter, it seems to reset only the miles for the trip, not the miles/kWh. I know, I know, RTFM, just haven't had time to read the entire books yet..
 
padamson1 said:
madbrain said:
I will apply to get the L2 charger with Ecotality as soon as possible.
If its cost you're worried about there are other alternatives to get home L2 charging.

Is your breaker panel in your garage? If there are open slots in your panel you can get an electrician to install a 240v outlet in your garage for not too much money (or do it yourself for $50). This gives you lots of options for L2 charging: (1) Ecotality, (2) buy your own plug-in EVSE at Lowe's or Home Depot and plug it in, or (3) get an EVSE Upgrade for portable L2 charging (http://evseupgrade.com/).

I bought a meter on-line and then installed my own outlet for $75. So combined with the EVSE Upgrade from Phil I got L2 charging for less than $400.

No, the main panel is outside the house. It is about 80' away from where I want the charger to be as it has to run up the garage wall, accross on the ceiling, and back down. No other way, it's a slab foundation. There is no attic space above the garage either to run anything, it has to be a conduit.

I got 2 quotes from electricians for $500 and $800 parts and labor, not including the charger itself.
I don't see how it would be much less costly to install an outlet than the charger.

I'm afraid Ecotality will want to upgrade my 200amp panel to a 400amp, I hope that's not the case, otherwise their $1200 of labor will not come close to covering it. My total existing breakers are probably already 300amps, but of course I never come close to using everything at once. The 2 electricians that looked at it said I was fine with the 200amp to add one L2 charger.
 
madbrain said:
How do I reset each of the miles/kWh values ?

When I reset the trip meter, it seems to reset only the miles for the trip, not the miles/kWh. I know, I know, RTFM, just haven't had time to read the entire books yet..
1

http://bit.ly/leafenergyeconomy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Nasty surprise today at work. Even though I had seen some Leafs plugged in before in the EV spot, it turns out the chargers are old Magna charge types, just like at Fry's.
There is another charger that has a flat plug, no idea what type it is. There was another one at Fry's too on saturday.

There are a couple of 120V outlets, though. The way the cars are plugged in is with the EVSE using those outlets. There was a volt plugged in.
I suppose I should have taken a closer look before. I left my EVSE at home of course, expecting to charge L2 at work today, so no free L1 charging at work today. This is a bit of a bummer.

I don't suppose adapters exist for those other chargers to plug in the Leaf ?
 
surfingslovak said:
madbrain said:
How do I reset each of the miles/kWh values ?

When I reset the trip meter, it seems to reset only the miles for the trip, not the miles/kWh. I know, I know, RTFM, just haven't had time to read the entire books yet..
1

http://bit.ly/leafenergyeconomy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks.
 
madbrain said:
Nasty surprise today at work. Even though I had seen some Leafs plugged in before in the EV spot, it turns out the chargers are old Magna charge types, just like at Fry's.
There is another charger that has a flat plug, no idea what type it is. There was another one at Fry's too on saturday.
...
I don't suppose adapters exist for those other chargers to plug in the Leaf ?
That flat plug is probably an Avcon:
P4101733.JPG


Electrically, it's almost identical to the J1772 we use. Adapters exist, but I'd bet you couldn't find one (or the Avcon inlet) at this point. Here's the gory details: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5925" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
madbrain said:
I don't suppose adapters exist for those other chargers to plug in the Leaf ?

Assuming the charger itself is a Clipper Creek (and the old Avcons generally were), it's very easy to make these J1772 compatible - all that needs to happen is the Avcon equipped cable needs to be changed out for one a J1772 equipped cable.
 
As you're finding out, an 80 mile day in a LEAF using just a trickle charger is certainly a stretch. Having L2 chargers at home and out-and-about certainly help, but even with these this is a car that certainly requires some strategic planning. Whether to charge to 80% or not is a perfect example. Mapping out charge points ahead of time (especially DC fast chargers) is another. Speeding is fine (wait, did I just say that?) as is dropping below 4m/kWh, but you need to predict what your remaining plans are for the day and plan accordingly. Or, if your schedule tends to be last-minute (for example, if you routinely follow up on last-minute invites from friends), you've got to leave yourself that 10/20/30/etc. mile buffer since, as you've found out, you can't always count on charging infrastructure being available and/or up to your needs.

For my part, I tend to drive incredibly conservatively until I know that a new route is well within the range of the LEAF. Once that's done, it's flame on as I get to enjoy my favorite past time: electric car jack-rabbit starts from green lights.. :D


PS- Yes, I know jack-rabbit starts are a sure way to get me and some red-light-runner killed, so I've learned from my motorcycle experience and always check all directions, twice, before flooring it. Drive safe and trust that you'll learn to love the LEAF and all of its little idiosyncrasies..
 
davewill said:
That flat plug is probably an Avcon:

Electrically, it's almost identical to the J1772 we use. Adapters exist, but I'd bet you couldn't find one (or the Avcon inlet) at this point. Here's the gory details: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5925" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

davewill, yes, that is the one.

I just learned from a Volt owner in the parking lot that my company will be upgrading the chargers to current standards in the next few months.
He confirmed this was an Avcon. He said there is someone who will custom build the adapter still for $300. Seems a bit steep, especially since company chargers will be upgraded. Though I don't know what will happen to the public Avcon chargers.

In the meantime, people are using only L1 chargers. There are only 120V outlets. The Volt owner told me if any Leaf is plugged into the second outlet, it causes the voltage to drop, and the Volt to stop charging. My guess is the 2 outlets share the same circuit. Not sure how many amp circuit this is.

He also said that it's been possible in the past to charge 3 Leafs from those 2 outlets simultaneously somehow with a multi-tap. Don't see how this is possible given that each L1 Leaf charger would pull in 12 amps. 4 Leaf's have been tried before and that tripped the GFCI.

I'm about to signup for the EV list at my company.
 
TLeaf,

TLeaf said:
As you're finding out, an 80 mile day in a LEAF using just a trickle charger is certainly a stretch. Having L2 chargers at home and out-and-about certainly help, but even with these this is a car that certainly requires some strategic planning.

Right. The last 2 errands of the day were spontaneous and unplanned. I figured I might have to take the Prius for the very last trip, but after the few hours of daytime trickle charges, it seemed to be quite OK according to the GOM. But the GOM is the GOM, and in reality I was cutting it close.

Whether to charge to 80% or not is a perfect example. Mapping out charge points ahead of time (especially DC fast chargers) is another.

I think I will likely be charging at 100% most of the time for the time being as I will only have access to L1 at home and work for the next few months. I may not even reach 100% anyway given the time it takes, but that depends how much I drive.

I finally got my Carwings issue resolved so now I was able to update the list of charging stations. I may visit a few of them just to see if they work.

Or, if your schedule tends to be last-minute (for example, if you routinely follow up on last-minute invites from friends), you've got to leave yourself that 10/20/30/etc. mile buffer since, as you've found out, you can't always count on charging infrastructure being available and/or up to your needs.

Right, this was a last minute meeting with a non-driving friend. And of course he wanted to see the new car.

For my part, I tend to drive incredibly conservatively until I know that a new route is well within the range of the LEAF. Once that's done, it's flame on as I get to enjoy my favorite past time: electric car jack-rabbit starts from green lights.. :D

PS- Yes, I know jack-rabbit starts are a sure way to get me and some red-light-runner killed, so I've learned from my motorcycle experience and always check all directions, twice, before flooring it. Drive safe and trust that you'll learn to love the LEAF and all of its little idiosyncrasies..

Those starts can't be very good for the battery life either ;)
I have done a lot of them in the past with the Prius too. The combination of both engines makes it quite peppy. I got bored of that game a long time ago though.

I have been mostly hypermiling with the Prius. It's really not hard to get very good mileage with it. I think there were a couple days in my life where I respected all speed limits everywhere and those few days caused me to achieve 50 mpg on the entire tank. I'm sure many Prius owners have done better. I got tired of that game too, though.
On the freeway I tend to drive very differently, the Prius still easily gets about 45 mpg driving 70 - 75. Obviously this is not so good with the Leaf as I found out.

I think I will take my 2007 Prius off craigslist for now until I get L2 either at work or at home as I fear I might get into some sticky situations otherwise.
 
madbrain said:
He confirmed this was an Avcon. ...snip... Though I don't know what will happen to the public Avcon chargers [when the company upgrades them to J-1772].
Contact EAA (Electric Automobile Association) through their website (http://www.electricauto.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and they will arrange pick-up of the removed Avcon and SPI (the "small paddle induction" end you describe) units by a member. The components are recycled to support the remaining installed units. Good luck!
 
Welcome to the LEAF world! Four pages of comments on your post is something of an accomplishment! Some things I didn't see mentioned...

The EVSEupgrade would be worth considering if for some reason they are going to take a long time to deliver your Blink, but if you can get the garage wired right away. I assume you know that the upgraded "brick" can be plugged into either 120V or 240V depending on what's available.

Charging to 100% is not the best thing for the battery, however, since it's time spent at 100% that counts, you are likely doing OK because with the trickle charge you don't end up being at 100% for very long.

And finally, at 100%, you don't get hardly any regenerative braking on your way down that hill in the morning. Half a mile, though, I don't know if that amounts to much anyhow. But see what you can get out of it sometime when the state of charge is less.

By the way, I see you're a Prius driver, so you already know quite a bit about energy use and hypermiling tricks. While driving a Prius I observed a lot of things that affect efficiency...the big one seemed to be the weather. After I got a LEAF I learned about the Speed Thing. Yes, the LEAF is very sensitive to energy use. But I applied that trick to the Prius, and it worked there too! As you say, It's good to know, but you don't have to use it. :D
 
madbrain said:
He confirmed this was an Avcon. He said there is someone who will custom build the adapter still for $300. Seems a bit steep, especially since company chargers will be upgraded.
gbarry42 said:
The EVSEupgrade would be worth considering if for some reason they are going to take a long time to deliver your Blink, but if you can get the garage wired right away. I assume you know that the upgraded "brick" can be plugged into either 120V or 240V depending on what's available.
I concur, and should you ever get your EVSE upgraded, I will loan you an Avcon adapter :)
1
 
gbarry42,

gbarry42 said:
The EVSEupgrade would be worth considering if for some reason they are going to take a long time to deliver your Blink, but if you can get the garage wired right away. I assume you know that the upgraded "brick" can be plugged into either 120V or 240V depending on what's available.

Blink is giving me a schedule of 1 month for program approval, another couple of weeks for the contractor to come estimate the job, and then another week for installation or so. Ie. almost 2 months. That's about the same schedule that I was told it would take approximately to upgrade the chargers at work to J1772 .

Until then it sounds like I'm going to be stuck with mostly L1 charging at home, and occasional L1 at work due to the very limited 120V outlets. Only one Volt can be plugged in practice, or 1 to 3 Leafs. There is no other combination that is known to work with those outlets.

I'm slightly reluctant to do the EVSEupgrade since I'm leasing and I would have to undo the charger modification at the time I return the car to Nissan. And it will only help at work for the next 2 months until the chargers get upgraded, and only if I can borrow the AVcon adapter for that long.

Getting the garage wired right away would be expensive vs getting it done for free by Blink. My electrician quotes are $500 - $800 for the install to install an L2 charger near the spot on the left, the one farthest away from the electrical panel which is on the right of the garage, further uphill. Those quotes include 80' of conduit from the main electrical panel.

The garage design is a bit odd, it's actually a 3 car garage with only garage 2 doors in the front. The third spot in the right rear, behind the second spot, so no car can really go there unless the second spot is first emptied.

To make things worse, the driveway is not even as wide as the 2 garage doors. It's about the width of 1.5 cars. This means I can only back up the car straight only from the spot on the left. To back up the car from the spot on the right is harder as you have to angle the car. And there is a support in the middle of the two garage doors.

I end up parking my car on the spot on the left as I hate the maneuvering to extract the car from the spot on the right. My partner gets to park his car in that spot.

Maybe I could get a dryer outlet installed on the garage wall on the right, and do the EVseupgrade. I don't know if the cord is long enough to extend all the way to the left. Then 2 months later I would get the Blink installed for free on the left side. I would then have charging capability near either spot.

Charging to 100% is not the best thing for the battery, however, since it's time spent at 100% that counts, you are likely doing OK because with the trickle charge you don't end up being at 100% for very long.

Right. The L1 charger is so slow that I did not even reach 100% charge before I went to work, even though I went very late, I tend to be an afternoon/night person.

And finally, at 100%, you don't get hardly any regenerative braking on your way down that hill in the morning. Half a mile, though, I don't know if that amounts to much anyhow. But see what you can get out of it sometime when the state of charge is less.

Right, it probably wouldn't be much time at 100% at all. Maybe there is a way to charge to 98% ? :)

By the way, I see you're a Prius driver, so you already know quite a bit about energy use and hypermiling tricks. While driving a Prius I observed a lot of things that affect efficiency...the big one seemed to be the weather. After I got a LEAF I learned about the Speed Thing. Yes, the LEAF is very sensitive to energy use. But I applied that trick to the Prius, and it worked there too! As you say, It's good to know, but you don't have to use it. :D


Right, my first car was a 2001 Prius, I have never driven anything other than a Prius before, I know very well how they behave and what hurts the mileage to drop. Obviously speed is one.

I have only seen the mileage drop significantly on the Prius driving way too fast at 100 (with the old 2001) and 110 (with my 2007) on a completely empty I-5 at night driving to LA ... The Prius drops to about 20-25mpg at that speed which is still not horrible considering all the Hummers on the road. The Leaf won't reach 100 or 110 anyway, not that I would ever attempt to go to LA with it.

Otherwise I have noticed about 10% lower mileage in the winter vs summer on the Prius as I use the heat about half the time in the winter.

I have yet to figure out exactly the killer mileage speed thresholds on the Leaf.

My second full day, monday, was not as bad. I only drove my regular commute which is 12.7 mile in the morning and 13.3 in the evening according to google maps. My battery was not fully charged when the day started.

On my evening commute, the GOM in ECO mode went from 62 miles from the office parking lot to 29 when I got home to the top of the hill, for the 13.3 actual miles driven. I did not take the car a single mile past 65mph, and I was driving with cruise control on the freeway. I was even driving a bit less than the limit for some time. Most efficient way I have done in a very long time.
It was really disconcerting to see the GOM go from 39 miles at the freeway exit to 29 at home, even though the distance is exactly 3 miles, including the 0.5 mile uphill.

If I didn't put the car in ECO mode the GOM numbers would be smaller all around, but I would also get less efficiency from less regenerative breaking due to less coasting at all the lights on the way home.
 
TonyWilliams said:
davewill said:
If you watch carefully it becomes apparent the dash display truncates values above 8mpk while the center display will happily display double digit mpk values. Reset them both, then go down a hill to see what I mean. The dash will show 8mpk, while the center console might show 15mpk or so.

My new 2012 (April 2012 manufacture, no firmware updates) does not have this limitation.

I showed 18.1 miles per kWh on the dash (going down a hill) !!

Hmm, we must have different firmware. As far as I can tell the miles per kWh are truncated to 8 everywhere.
Both on the dash - the display behind the wheel - and on the LCD screen when I press the status button.
On the dash there is a horizontal line with a scale that only goes to 8, so I don't see how yours could display something higher unless they changed the UI.

Or do you mean the average number that's written out in digits above that scale ?
If so, you would only see that after resetting the stats first and immediately going downhill, right ?
Or are you able to see realtime mpk higher than 8 ?

How can I check the firmware version ? How do I or the dealer update it ?
And how can I tell exact manufacturing date ?

I would certainly like to see the m/kWh higher than 8 going downhill every day.
 
madbrain said:
I'm slightly reluctant to do the EVSEupgrade since I'm leasing and I would have to undo the charger modification at the time I return the car to Nissan. And it will only help at work for the next 2 months until the chargers get upgraded, and only if I can borrow the AVcon adapter for that long.

Getting the garage wired right away would be expensive vs getting it done for free by Blink.
...
I have only seen the mileage drop significantly on the Prius driving way too fast at 100 (with the old 2001) and 110 (with my 2007) on a completely empty I-5 at night driving to LA ... The Prius drops to about 20-25mpg at that speed which is still not horrible considering all the Hummers on the road. The Leaf won't reach 100 or 110 anyway, not that I would ever attempt to go to LA with it.
As for the leasing part, I'm sure you can find someone in the Bay Area who's willing to swap your upgraded one for a stock one. Also, per evseupgrade.com:
I am leasing my LEAF, and am worried I might be penalized if I turn my car in with the upgraded EVSE.
At the end of your lease we will be happy to swap you for a non-upgraded unit for free. (you cover shipping) I'm sure any other LEAF owner with an original unit would also be happy to swap you as well. In a pinch, you could simply cut the molded L6-20 connector off and install a standard screw-on plug just like the EVSE is originally shipped with, which you can purchase at any hardware store. Another option is to simply buy an additional already upgraded unit from us and keep your original unit in the trunk.

I can't speak to your electrical situation though.

Woah, re: your speeds in the Prius, you were hitting the max speed on your 07. :shock: I don't think I've even tried taking mine to even 90 mph. I don't dare go that fast on I-5 even w/radar and laser detector. You can get nailed w/laser (I've gotten real laser detections elsewhere before) and I've also seem cops hiding under overpasses or on on-ramps.

I've taken my former Maxima and Z faster, but some of it was on a track. I'd hate to get pulled over.

Re: firmware, maybe http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is it?
 
madbrain said:
Or do you mean the average number that's written out in digits above that scale ?
If so, you would only see that after resetting the stats first and immediately going downhill, right ? ...
Yes, I mean the digits, and you would only see it if you reset at the top of a hill and drove down. Tony's observation that the 2012 will display >8.0 on the dash is news to me. Suggests that either they fixed it, or the dash never did truncate the data internally, and the GPS is whole reason for the difference. It's academic anyway. The main thing is the the center console is usually 0.1mpk or so lower.
 
madbrain said:
TonyWilliams said:
davewill said:
If you watch carefully it becomes apparent the dash display truncates values above 8mpk while the center display will happily display double digit mpk values. Reset them both, then go down a hill to see what I mean. The dash will show 8mpk, while the center console might show 15mpk or so.

My new 2012 (April 2012 manufacture, no firmware updates) does not have this limitation.

I showed 18.1 miles per kWh on the dash (going down a hill) !!

Hmm, we must have different firmware. As far as I can tell the miles per kWh are truncated to 8 everywhere....
I would certainly like to see the m/kWh higher than 8 going downhill every day.


My March 2011 build LEAF did truncate at 8. I drove the car on a 2.5 mile loop at 10-15mph to verify this (the center Nav screen goes above 8).

The dealer's Consult III can tell you the firmware version.
 
Back
Top