Future enhancement : rear wheel, DC generators

[OilFreedom]

Don't feel bad, just remember that most of us on here are geeks and we've heard this kind of idea before and just because you didn't realize how all this works doesn't make you an idiot or anything. This is how you learn!

Good explanation, blorg, and +1 on your quoted statement.

Covinaman, now what you could do is create a human powered generator (pedals, hand cranks, or whatever you could fit into the car) that EV passengers would use to make some power to help charge the car's battery. That way, if someone wanted a ride in your EV, you could say "Sure! Hop in. Hey, while you're sitting there in the passenger seat doing close to nothing, would you please take this gizmo, and just keep cranking it like crazy? Thanks!"

And if you're feeling mischievous, start easing off the torque pedal a bit while heading up a hill and shout "OMG... You'd better crank that thing a lot faster, or we're not gonna make it!!!" :lol:

 

[palmermd]

OK, take this idea, but in the leaf instead of a person turning the pedals, the main battery pack is going to instead, right? So you're taking power from the battery pack to turn the wheels, which then turns a generator, which then charges a battery, which then powers your heater (or whatever).

The problem with this idea, which is what everyone is laughing about, is that you're just TRANSFERRING the energy, not producing more. Basically you're using one battery (the drive pack) to charge another battery. And in your idea, you're losing energy in heat, friction, and charging. Plus you need to add all those components so you're adding weight to the vehicle.

It's a good idea on a bicycle because your body energy that you're using to turn the pedals needs to be converted into electricity to power, say, a headlight. You can't just plug your light into your body, you need to convert somehow. But say you had an electric bike with a battery pack, then it would be more efficient to plug that headlight directly into the battery pack rather than have a completely separate battery charged off of a generator attached to the wheel that the main battery was driving.

In an ICE, it makes sense to have the engine turn the alternator (generator) because the engine itself is not storing/producing electricity to power all your electrical components. You need a separate battery in that case, because your engine isn't an electrical power source.

Does that make sense?

Don't feel bad, just remember that most of us on here are geeks and we've heard this kind of idea before and just because you didn't realize how all this works doesn't make you an idiot or anything. This is how you learn!

nice explanation +1

 

[garygid]

1. The generators on the rear wheels could be used for greater Regen Braking, providing a little bit more recovered energy, AND noticably more braking traction.

But, the main motor and front wheels could do more without added hardware and weight.

2. The Traction Battery already DOES drive the 12v, with its "atlernator" substitute, a DC-to-DC converter which produces up to something over 100 amps (at about 12 volts) directly from about 4 amps out of the high-voltage battery.

 

[smkettner]

1. The generators on the rear wheels could be used for greater Regen Braking, providing a little bit more recovered energy, AND noticably more braking traction.

I am thinking what is already generated by the motor already maxes out the battery charging limit.
I could be wrong.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This thread is making the wait for my Leaf waaaaay more entertaining! Thanks for the laughs! :lol:

I am busting a gut over here !!! Stop... well, don't stop !!!

:lol:


How about dropping long ropes from helicopters and airplanes that fly over the freeway, and you just grab a rope and it will propel you in any vehicle; bike, car, tank, boat, etc.

FREE, PERPETUAL POWER !!!

 

[garygid]

The LEAF's 30-amp Regen could be several times greater.

 

[Covinaman]

This thread is making the wait for my Leaf waaaaay more entertaining! Thanks for the laughs! :lol:

Glad your entertained. You don't even need your refill of Medical(weed) today.

One could look at a Hub dynamo (like on a bike ) and wonder why it would not power a heater on a moving car?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_dynamo

 

[palmermd]

it can but it is not the most efficient way of doing it.

 

[wwhitney]

One could look at a Hub dynamo (like on a bike ) and wonder why it would not power a heater on a moving car?

Sure, you could use a hub dynamo on an electric car to power the heater.

However, doing that will deplete the main (traction) battery, as the car will need to use more power to the drive motor to overcome the drag of the hub dynamo. In fact, using the hub dynamo to power the heater will deplete the main battery faster than just powering the heater directly from the main battery.

There's no free lunch.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LakeLeaf]

1. The generators on the rear wheels could be used for greater Regen Braking, providing a little bit more recovered energy, AND noticably more braking traction.

I am thinking what is already generated by the motor already maxes out the battery charging limit.
I could be wrong.

There is a benefit to adding a motor generator to the rear axle. Besides being able to pick up a little bit of charge when slowing down/braking - the generator part gives you an AWD capability - even if it is only used selectively. That can be extra nice in snow country. Similar to what Toyota did on the Highlander hybrid. It's a bummer the Prius has both of it's M/G's on the front axle.

 

[OilFreedom]

This thread is making the wait for my Leaf waaaaay more entertaining! Thanks for the laughs! :lol:

Glad your entertained. You don't even need your refill of Medical(weed) today.

Covinaman, I'm sure no one intended to offend you. How about we go grab a snack? My treat.

 

[DrillbabyDrill]

Ya know, I hear this and see this a lot, and I don't even have my Leaf yet. My dad brought this up, in fact. Although it is funny to us, some people think it's actually some huge conspiracy, i.e. that companies don't want to let the common man in on the secret. And if you care about people being informed, you have to go out of your way to explain it, which is a lot harder (but not as fun) than quipping "go take a 10th grade physics class, asshole."

I'd like a very simple analogy about why this scenario doesn't work. As soon as I mention heat, or friction, I lose people. Anyone have any?

 

[kolmstead]

Lots of engineers and technical people on this site; sometimes we forget that the average person hasn't had Thermo, or maybe even basic physics. Maybe we should make up a list of good, friendly places to send people for a quick education? Hmm.. wonder if Wikipedia has a good perpetual motion page.

Nearly all of these schemes involve a generator. Driven by a motor, a wheel, or by the wind. Somehow people have become convinced that electricity is magical and free. Chemistry also works, especially if there is some electricity involved. And hydrogen? It is the most magical of all.

-Karl

 

[Anonymous]

Ya know, I hear this and see this a lot, and I don't even have my Leaf yet. My dad brought this up, in fact. Although it is funny to us, some people think it's actually some huge conspiracy, i.e. that companies don't want to let the common man in on the secret. And if you care about people being informed, you have to go out of your way to explain it, which is a lot harder (but not as fun) than quipping "go take a 10th grade physics class, asshole."

I'd like a very simple analogy about why this scenario doesn't work. As soon as I mention heat, or friction, I lose people. Anyone have any?

How about my post earlier in this thread that got a couple thumbs ups from other members? Perhaps it got buried...

(not to toot my own horn or anything, but I seemed to be the only one that was nice to the poor OP...)

 

[marccbr]

I think some rear wheel regenerative braking would help out not sure what the added cost and weight would be though. How about regenerative shocks like these; http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/01/on-the-rebound-scientists-invent-regenerative-shocks/ might be away to add energy since it does not add horizontal friction that would not deplete the battery.

 

[nater]

The thing about this, is that it IS 10th grade physics. Isn't 10th grade required for ALL Americans?

I mean, this is what our society has come to? That only nerds/ geeks / engineers understand basic 10th grade stuff?

If so, we are doomed.

I apologize profusely to the original poster if you are indeed in 9th grade.

Nate

 

[awallis]

I think the simple explanation is that there is no such thing as a free lunch. That is why, realizing that I would need more than just regenerative braking, I ordered the SL version with the solar panel so that I wouldn't have to plug my Leaf in.

Ok, that was a joke.

The problem is not that people didn't take 10th grade physics, it's that they didn't learn it by doing and thinking about it in the real world. Here in the forum hopefully we can teach and learn from one another in order to make up for the hormones, crappy textbooks and/or disinterested teachers that caused some of us to forget rather than understand the laws of thermodynamics.

In certain conditions or for certain people it would be advantageous to have increased power generation and traction coming from the rear wheels, but range would actually be compromised by the added weight, and for all of us the expense would go up.

But I'm just repeating what others said.

Now, if only we could get 99% efficient solar panels and cover 3 square meters of the car... Never mind.

 

[Covinaman]

I think some rear wheel regenerative braking would help out not sure what the added cost and weight would be though. How about regenerative shocks like these; http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/01/on-the-rebound-scientists-invent-regenerative-shocks/ might be away to add energy since it does not add horizontal friction that would not deplete the battery.

I like that idea too. I like those who think about improvements, and maybe aftermarket enhancements, to extend mileage.

 

[Stunt822]

move this request to Humor please

 

[TNleaf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWxZm8WjlI8&feature=related

Same applies to outside that house too

Haha, I'm glad someone posted this :lol: