LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
Boy I don't know, this just keeps getting messier. Hard to see this not ending badly.
Asia was consuming about 10 million barrels of oil per day in 1980, and by 2012 that volume tripled to nearly 30 million barrels per day. North America had dominated the chart for years, but moved to second place behind Asia in 2009. Rapidly industrializing economies in China and India have been fueling the growth. China increased petroleum consumption 2.8 million bbl/d and India by 800,000 bbl/d between 2008 and 2012. China is expected to surpass the US as the world's largest oil importer this fall....
If you look at the video, you'll see that Asia's oil consumption is greater than North America's and is about double Europe's.klapauzius said:About the chinese "middle class":
The annual disposable income per capita in the US is $40k. For the Chinese it is $3k. Take the urban middle class there and it is maybe $6k.
Annual gas expenditures for gas in the US per capita are ~ $2k.
They have a long way to go still and are in no position to seriously compete for oil and gas with the US (or Europe) yet...
cwerdna said:Asia was consuming about 10 million barrels of oil per day in 1980, and by 2012 that volume tripled to nearly 30 million barrels per day. North America had dominated the chart for years, but moved to second place behind Asia in 2009. Rapidly industrializing economies in China and India have been fueling the growth. China increased petroleum consumption 2.8 million bbl/d and India by 800,000 bbl/d between 2008 and 2012. China is expected to surpass the US as the world's largest oil importer this fall....
Why, In China, Gas Is $2.49 A Gallon
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Current consumption is now about 8 million barrels a day and rising at a rapid 7% annual rate, the highest growth rate in the world.
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Consider the following: Since January 2007, global crude oil prices have risen by 109%; gasoline prices in the U.S. have risen by 77% (roughly apace); gasoline prices in China have risen only 9%.
Gasoline in the U.S. now sells for around $4 per gallon, but it sells for $2.49 per gallon in China. Beijing last raised domestic gasoline prices in November 2007, by 9%, and that was the first and only hike since January 2007, when crude was $87 per barrel.
I'm visiting now and though there may be few to none electric cars, two wheeled evs are doing well. It seems like there are almost as many electric bikes, mopeds, and scooters as cars. Certainly there are many more of them than gas powered motorbikes, at least downtown.klapauzius said:$4.73 per gallon of gas in Shanghai.
Yes, it seems the only way to get Americans to listen is via visibly higher gas prices. But, it only seems to have a short-term effect.klapauzius said:One would hope that the current middle east crisis will drive home the point that we need serious alternatives to oil-based individual mobility.
If people are not open to reason, they might listen to their pocketbooks....
If the gas prices were to double, electric cars will look like a very sweet alternative.
DNAinaGoodWay said:Battering Rams of Death
DaveinOlyWA said:no matter what you call them, cwerdna is right. I know too many people who are complaining right now that their gas bill has gone up $100 a month (they are paying $500 so not really a large percentage jump) driving a Honda SUV (gets about 22-23) and a Ford 4X4 pickup (gets about 17 or so he says...) but these were BOTH cars bought last year when gas was nearing $3.15 a gallon.
But they got the cars because gas had just come down from $4 and all of a sudden they felt they had an extra $100 a month! (how does that logic work???)
Both commute (he about 60-70 miles a day, her about 40-50) and she does all the running around with the kids and stuff and he goes straight to work and then home afterwards. might stop for something at the local store on the way home 1-2 times a month but that is about it.
I tried to talk to them about getting one EV and sharing it with the truck which does cover all the family needs but they didnt want to do it although both admitted leasing was a cheap, "no risk" way to check out EV tech...
johnrhansen said:I've become a big EV advocate at my place of work. I've noticed that people go out of their way to tell me I should have bought a ICE powered car, or how that an electric car will not work for them, and other ways of trying to prove to me how silly of an idea an electric car is. There is lots of resistance to the idea of an EV in mainstream america, most of it not based on logic at all. Not really sure people are going to adopt it into the mainstream until they have to.
My career choice is kind of ironic for someone who is trying to be green. The aircraft I work on spew out more carbon in one flight than I would use driving an ICE car for my entire lifetime. Maybe that's the reason for the EV resistance where I work.
klapauzius said:DaveinOlyWA said:no matter what you call them, cwerdna is right. I know too many people who are complaining right now that their gas bill has gone up $100 a month (they are paying $500 so not really a large percentage jump) driving a Honda SUV (gets about 22-23) and a Ford 4X4 pickup (gets about 17 or so he says...) but these were BOTH cars bought last year when gas was nearing $3.15 a gallon.
But they got the cars because gas had just come down from $4 and all of a sudden they felt they had an extra $100 a month! (how does that logic work???)
Both commute (he about 60-70 miles a day, her about 40-50) and she does all the running around with the kids and stuff and he goes straight to work and then home afterwards. might stop for something at the local store on the way home 1-2 times a month but that is about it.
I tried to talk to them about getting one EV and sharing it with the truck which does cover all the family needs but they didnt want to do it although both admitted leasing was a cheap, "no risk" way to check out EV tech...
It seems that money, like gas, comes from some mysterious, infinite reservoir, and its dispensation is not related to real world factors such as IQ, availability or environment.
A 70 mile commute in a 4x4 truck?
Did you forget to tell us he is in construction or logging and needs the truck at work to haul around heavy loads over unpaved roads? That would make perfect sense.
johnrhansen said:So many people use an inefficient vehicle every day just so they can use it a few times a year for it's intended purpose. I know several people who commute a lot of miles to work every day in a full size 4wd pickup, just so they can haul their boat around a few times a year during the summer. What's going on is that with what they paid for the big truck, they can't afford another car payment so they are forced to drive it. It baffles me. So many better ideas, why do people not do it? They are plenty smart. They just do dumb things.
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