Ghosn says Leaf will get a new battery.

[adric22]

http://www.chargedevs.com/content/news-wire/post/ghosn-makes-it-official-leaf-will-get-better-battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[blueblob06]

Wow. Seems like big news. If it is cheaper and actually has 75% more capacity than what's in the current Leaf, that'd be amazing!

 

[camasleaf]

When? What YM 2013, 2014, 2015? How much better?

Still too many questions unanswered.

 

[DarkStar]

Yeah, the article doesn't even indicate that Ghosn is referring to a new battery for the Leaf, just a new battery. Maybe this one will be used in their commercial vehicle division? Who knows!

 

[Nubo]

Time will tell. Since they say they have a better battery coming online, it would be great to see it be the battery they go with in their giant battery plant in TN on day 1.

Maybe Nissan will turn those frowns :x upside-down .

 

[ebill3]

Yeah, the article doesn't even indicate that Ghosn is referring to a new battery for the Leaf, just a new battery. Maybe this one will be used in their commercial vehicle division? Who knows!

The excerpt from the WSJ seems to tie the new battery to the LEAF.

 

[palmermd]

Time will tell. Since they say they have a better battery coming online, it would be great to see it be the battery they go with in their giant battery plant in TN on day 1.

Maybe Nissan will turn those frowns :x upside-down .

Well that would be the most logical conclusion, but logic does not always follow. Lets hope in this case it does.

The original article comes from the one Jay Cole (Statik) wrote in InsideEV's http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; where the 75% improvement is speculation on his part.

The second generation battery he is referring to is, in all likelihood, the NMC (LiNiMnCo) battery AESC first starting working on when the joint venture was formed in 2009.

This 2nd gen battery using a lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide cathode can offer about 75% more energy capacity over the standard chemistry (LiMnO2) currently used in the Nissan LEAF, and is thought to be only slightly more expensive to produce.

This would bring the Leaf battery the same chemistry that Tesla is using in the ModelS. It greatly improves the energy density, but I'm not sure it does anything for the temperature limitations, and we would still likely need to have a temperature control system installed in the Leaf for warm climate areas like Phoenix. ModelS has one installed in every pack they sell (regardless of destination). Lets hope that Nissan has been waiting for this announcement before saying anything about the Arizona car issue. Not sure why they needed to wait, but I hope this is why and we will soon have some answers.

From Battery University http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; :

Here is the chart for LiMn2O4 which are the current Leaf battery:

Here is the chart for LiNiMnCoO2 which is suggested by Jay :

seems like they are saying it should have a better lifespan, performance and energy without effecting the cost, power or safety of the battery.

 

[JimSouCal]

When? What YM 2013, 2014, 2015? How much better?

Still too many questions unanswered.

Well, my thought has always been that depending on Nissan for a battery upgrade was sketchy, but that 3rd party vendors will have an adapted solution of future current technology to replace my current battery when the time arrives.... Furthermore, I never vested any reliance on a long range capability, figuring I'd just rent a vehicle for that rare need. Obviously, this is my own unique situation, and others have differing parameter limits.

Bottom line is that if Nissan is thinking this through, they will standardized so as to take care of the early adopters to build brand loyalty--so far, the affective mood for some is they are left twisting in the wind on their own--yes, time will tell.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

so this could take the LEAF from 85 miles to 150 miles? if it was offered as upgrade for CURRENT LEAFs, how much would people pay for that?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You gotta love the reply posted by Bob to Pete McWade's pining for an upgrade.

Early adopter. Suck it.

 

[davewill]

The only real quote there is that a cheaper battery is coming out. I should hope so!! No one builds battery factories to watch their costs remain the same. I see nothing but abject speculation by the blogs that there will be more capacity.

 

[Nubo]

so this could take the LEAF from 85 miles to 150 miles? if it was offered as upgrade for CURRENT LEAFs, how much would people pay for that?

I'd expect that some of the capacity improvement would be budgeted towards longer life, by keeping a greater reserve on the high and low end, and some budgeted to range improvement.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You gotta love the reply posted by Bob to Pete McWade's pining for an upgrade.

Early adopter. Suck it.

my response to Bob

Hey Bob, i am LEAF #258 or first in WA State to take delivery. today is my 20th month anniversary of ownership. i have driven 21,500 miles, still have 98.9% of my original battery capacity left and have saved over $2000 in fuel costs. I Suck it GOOD!!

 

[TomT]

Yep, notice that no time frame is given! Of course a better battery is coming ... some day! Sorry, but Ghosn has very little credibility left with me.

http://www.chargedevs.com/content/news-wire/post/ghosn-makes-it-official-leaf-will-get-better-battery

 

[camasleaf]

..., i am LEAF #258 or first in WA State to take delivery. today is my 20th month anniversary of ownership. i have driven 21,500 miles, still have 98.9% of my original battery capacity left and have saved over $2000 in fuel costs. ...

Yesterday was my 15th month anniversary of ownership. I am also at 21500 miles. I do not have GID meter (I am willing to rent one for a week), but on Sunday I drove 68 miles (mixed flat, hills, freeway, city) from 80% to 3 miles after LBW at 5.4 m/KWh average (80s outside, 5 to 6 TB). So I can say the degradation is minimal. Saved over $3000 on gas compared to my old car.
I wanted to reply to the guy, but the work browser does not allow it. Thanks Dave for doing it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

..., i am LEAF #258 or first in WA State to take delivery. today is my 20th month anniversary of ownership. i have driven 21,500 miles, still have 98.9% of my original battery capacity left and have saved over $2000 in fuel costs. ...

Yesterday was my 15th month anniversary of ownership. I am also at 21500 miles. I do not have GID meter (I am willing to rent one for a week), but on Sunday I drove 68 miles (mixed flat, hills, freeway, city) from 80% to 3 miles after LBW at 5.4 m/KWh average (80s outside, 5 to 6 TB). So I can say the degradation is minimal. Saved over $3000 on gas compared to my old car.
I wanted to reply to the guy, but the work browser does not allow it. Thanks Dave for doing it.

hey not a problem. i had posted that i had a choice of waiting AT least 2 years for a the battery pack upgrade or live with what i had for the PAST 20 months and so on but they limit your comment size.

i was just gonna post multiple comments but some people really dont get it. besides, as others have stated; this is just a story about innovation. its not a product announcement. we all knew this was coming and the story was probably put out to put some people at ease.

i got my LEAF thinking that by now, i would have lost 5-10% of my range and for periods during the hotter part of Summer, it did look like that but since the much cooler nights have come back the capacity has come back with it.

granted, we are less than 2 months away from dealing with shorter winter ranges, but that is ok. it will be my 3rd winter... WOW!! my 3rd. i cannot believe that much time has passed.

time really does fly when you are having fun!!

 

[mdh]

I think Nissan is hurting themselves by not being overt by telling people that they will be offering an aggressive battery refresh program. If this happened, the value of these cars would rock and it would build reoccurring revenue for Nissan and customer loyalty.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think Nissan is hurting themselves by not being overt by telling people that they will be offering an aggressive battery refresh program. If this happened, the value of these cars would rock and it would build reoccurring revenue for Nissan and customer loyalty.

i agree 100% but Nissan is typical of Japanese companies. Toyota is the EXACT same way.

as a Toyota fanboy for a looooong time, i can say from firsthand experience that Toyota does not say ANYTHING before its ready and i was one of a privileged few to be party to some early product announcements and even then they would only give VERY vague hints as to what was coming.

the Prius line of cars is something we had been clamoring for for years,

the plug ins (too bad they decided not to take the other suggestions of longer range plug plus city EV but who knows, that might be just around the corner for all we know)

so i have to say in this case, silence does not mean no solution. its some sort of cracked Japanese tradition to be 100% ready before anything is said. it does suck. sometimes i wish they would be more like American companies who over promise and under deliver. at least that way we could know what we "might" expect to see eventually...

 

[Stoaty]

sometimes i wish they would be more like American companies who over promise and under deliver.

I think they have already done a pretty good job of that with their claims about battery life. How much more could they really "improve"? :evil:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

sometimes i wish they would be more like American companies who over promise and under deliver.

I think they have already done a pretty good job of that with their claims about battery life. How much more could they really "improve"? :evil:

how long are we going to continue to reference that 100 mile statement? Nissan was VERY clear in stating that the range was dependent on driving conditions and went so far as to post a chart detailing driving conditions and expected ranges and i for the most part think the did an EXCELLENT job of that.

what my statement was referring to was GM for example (one of very very many) when the Volt was supposed to be;

priced in the mid 20's
have oodles of EV range
on the showroom floor in 2010
etc.

but this is typical of American Companies waaaay more so than any other country and not just in cars but electronics, software (lets talk Duke Nukem or Microsoft) where they generate buzz with press releases and launch dates that they could not possibly have thought attainable.

now, some might say the same with the LEAF and its publicity Dec 2010 releases but i got mine in mid Jan so i am not gonna quibble over being a few months late when the Volt was 2 YEARS late.