Grabby Brakes?

[TimLee]

Back to the original question... does anyone know if these updates can be optional? are all mandatory?
Has anyone ever said to a dealer... I prefer not to have that (any particular) update and the dealer said ok?
One would think they could be similar to computer Software updates having some as optional and some as mandatory.
Does anyone know if this is the case?

I don' know yet but will soon.
Plan to have my third annual battery "test" and complete inspection on the 20,000 mile one capacity bar loss 2011 LEAF that I own before the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty ends 17 May 2014. Based on all the bad reports of regeneration loss I hope I can avoid having P3227 done until Nissan fixes the update which, might be never.

 

[QueenBee]

Back to the original question... does anyone know if these updates can be optional? are all mandatory?
Has anyone ever said to a dealer... I prefer not to have that (any particular) update and the dealer said ok?
One would think they could be similar to computer Software updates having some as optional and some as mandatory.
Does anyone know if this is the case?

I don' know yet but will soon.
Plan to have my third annual battery "test" and complete inspection on the 20,000 mile one capacity bar loss 2011 LEAF that I own before the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty ends 17 May 2014. Based on all the bad reports of regeneration loss I hope I can avoid having P3227 done until Nissan fixes the update which, might be never.

Anyone notice that every update "decreases regen"? How many more updates before regen stops working completely? It took me a while to get P3227 but in my 12% SOH loss, 27k mile 2011 LEAf my winter regen had been pretty low. Hard to compare to previous winters to know if it is worse but regen bubbles were often missing both before and after the update. I have to wonder what role age, internal resistinance, and capacity loss are impacting available regen and if anything the updates are not making worse because of a bug but because they are protecting the battery better. That's just my opinion though.

 

[TomT]

At this juncture, I think we can forget about any future updates or fixes for 2011 and 2012 models...

Plan to have my third annual battery "test" and complete inspection on the 20,000 mile one capacity bar loss 2011 LEAF that I own before the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty ends 17 May 2014. Based on all the bad reports of regeneration loss I hope I can avoid having P3227 done until Nissan fixes the update which, might be never.

 

[lion]

These grabby brakes on my 2013 are driving me nuts (and is embarrassing when you have a passenger in the car), so I'm thinking about asking for the update Nissan released.

I see at least 1 post mentioning that the update might affect regeneration. Can anyone else with the 2013 update confirm if this is the case?

For what it's worth, here is the summary of that TSB:

SB 2013 LEAF; Brake Pedal Sensitive at Speeds Below 15 MPH
Summary of NTB14017:
If YOU CONFIRM Customer may experience some brake sensitivity at speeds below 15 mph. The customer may experience this issue while in stop-and-go traffic conditions. And No DTCs are present in the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit.* If DTCs are present, refer to the specific section of the applicable Electronic Service Manual (ESM) and diagnose first. ACTION 1. Refer to step 14 in the SERVICE PROCEDURE to confirm this bulletin applies to the vehicle you are working on. 2. If this bulletin applies, reprogram the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit with CONSULT III plus (CIII plus). Please see this bulletin for further details.

 

[QueenBee]

These grabby brakes on my 2013 are driving me nuts (and is embarrassing when you have a passenger in the car), so I'm thinking about asking for the update Nissan released.

I see at least 1 post mentioning that the update might affect regeneration. Can anyone else with the 2013 update confirm if this is the case?

For what it's worth, here is the summary of that TSB:

SB 2013 LEAF; Brake Pedal Sensitive at Speeds Below 15 MPH
Summary of NTB14017:
If YOU CONFIRM Customer may experience some brake sensitivity at speeds below 15 mph. The customer may experience this issue while in stop-and-go traffic conditions. And No DTCs are present in the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit.* If DTCs are present, refer to the specific section of the applicable Electronic Service Manual (ESM) and diagnose first. ACTION 1. Refer to step 14 in the SERVICE PROCEDURE to confirm this bulletin applies to the vehicle you are working on. 2. If this bulletin applies, reprogram the Electrically-driven Intelligent Brake Control Unit with CONSULT III plus (CIII plus). Please see this bulletin for further details.

Definitely ask for it! There is no reason to not get it unless you are paranoid and scared of change.

 

[GeekEV]

I've finally found a solution for my grabby brake problem!!! It's called a Chevy Spark EV... :lol:

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.

 

[turbo2ltr]

For a leased vehicle... has anyone ever successfully refused an update? are they mandatory?
I have learned how to work my way around the touchy brakes and do not want to sacrifice the extra regen the car has now.

My 2011 (Vin 185) never saw a dealer until the day I turned it in 3 years later. I ran the pre- A/C problem firmware the whole time.

 

[dndrich]

Just had the 1 year battery check done yesterday. Also a few recall reprogramming problems were addressed in my 2013 SV. I pointed out the TSB on the brakes. They agreed and reprogrammed. I must say, the brakes at low speed don't have that grabby feel anymore. Much improved. I recommend it.

 

[sbccsb]

My 2012 Leaf had the problem described in this thread. Took it to the dealer a few months ago to get the latest software hoping that would fix the problem. If anything, braking has been worse since then. Lately have seen "pulsing" brake behavior at higher (40-50mph) speeds. Took the car back last week and the dealer again verified that the software was up to date, brake pads, etc. were all mechanically fine. They talked to Nissan corporate folks in TN who suggested bleeding the brake lines. The dealer bled the lines and so far the brakes are much "tighter" (not very much pressure is required to get braking), but definitely consistent in behavior. I do not get the grabbiness at low speeds and no pulsing at higher speeds, at least so far. Also, the regen is now acting more like it did when I first got the car.

Not sure how I'd have gotten bubbles in the brake lines, but so far so good after getting them bled.

 

[1932highboy]

I had the TSB on the brakes done at the same time my annual battery check was done. It's fixed the grabby brakes, so no more sudden stops in the drive thru. I had no change in my regen.

 

[Jim]

I had the TSB on the brakes done at the same time my annual battery check was done. It's fixed the grabby brakes, so no more sudden stops in the drive thru. I had no change in my regen.

Same here. The brakes feel much better now.

 

[lion]

I noticed that the grabby brakes are back in certain conditions (seems to be better in ECO). It's not as frequent as it used to be, but it's definitely noticeable when it does happen. Between that, and losing regen when driving over a tiny bump, I 'm really disappointed in Nissan's braking system.

 

[GeekEV]

I noticed that the grabby brakes are back in certain conditions (seems to be better in ECO). It's not as frequent as it used to be, but it's definitely noticeable when it does happen. Between that, and losing regen when driving over a tiny bump, I 'm really disappointed in Nissan's braking system.

It was my experience with my 2011 that it was much better for 6+ months and steadily got worse again after that.

 

[IrvingHarlem]

I mostly drive stop and go on city streets. When I first got my Leaf in February I had a lot of problems with grabby brakes. Now that it's July I've noticed that I rarely have a problem. Could the improvement be due to the warm weather as someone mentioned? Or, could I have learned to coast more until I need to make one final smooth application of the brake before the final full stop?

If I'm not having problems now should I get the software update, NTB14-017, when I go for the annual service or just wait till I have problems again?

 

[lion]

So it seems to be getting worse, specially when moving in slow/stop&go traffic, even in ECO now. heads are bopping again, not to mention, it must look weird seeing the car jolt like that. Guess I'll mention it to my dealer next time I stop in, as I don't want to keep giving up the car for the day (if they only provided us with LEAF loaners during service!).

 

[TimLee]

Sounds like four model years (2011 / 2012 / 2013 / 2014) and Nissan still can't properly analyze the problem and resolve the grabby brake deficiency!!!
The 2011 fix helped briefly but isn't a permanent fix, and sounds like the follow on years have the same pattern.
Key to tolerating the LEAF brakes is learning that they are use once.
They work OK for one use.
You have to totally get your foot off of them if you want to use them again and have them work properly.

At least this braking deficiency is mainly a nuisance.
Not near as much hazard as the other two flaws of brakes briefly quitting when you go over a surface change (which I've experienced five times in 37 months) or the panic braking complete lock up (which I fortunately haven't experienced yet).

 

[Flashman]

For what ever reason.. my grabby brakes have ceased. Smooth now.
Maybe it is the warm weather but the problem seems to have gone away for me and I have not had any updates or dealer visits since the problem first manifested.

 

[NasGoreList]

had mine for just over two months now. I quickly learned that brakes are grabby when you use the same brake pedal force as you would in the normal car. It didn't take me long to get used to this and learn how to modulate brake pressure at much finer level than what is needed in the regular car. I spend quite a few days on the race track and threshold braking experience helps a lot with mastering this. Another thing that helps is to start braking much earlier to maximize regen, imagine that you have an egg between your foot and brake pedal :mrgreen: .

IMO 2014 Leaf brakes are just fine. The only thing I do not like is the abrupt change of the brake force over uneven/bumpy surfaces, which I think is the result of overly sensitive ABS/Traction control settings.

 

[lion]

Sounds like four model years (2011 / 2012 / 2013 / 2014) and Nissan still can't properly analyze the problem and resolve the grabby brake deficiency!!!
The 2011 fix helped briefly but isn't a permanent fix, and sounds like the follow on years have the same pattern.
Key to tolerating the LEAF brakes is learning that they are use once.
They work OK for one use.
You have to totally get your foot off of them if you want to use them again and have them work properly.

At least this braking deficiency is mainly a nuisance.
Not near as much hazard as the other two flaws of brakes briefly quitting when you go over a surface change (which I've experienced five times in 37 months) or the panic braking complete lock up (which I fortunately haven't experienced yet).

That is a really interesting observation, I'll have to try this (use once that is), while a pain, it might make it more manageable. Will report back.

As for the two other flaws, don't get me started on that one. I experience the surface-brake issue several times a day, extremely frustrating, especially when doing emergency stops.

had mine for just over two months now. I quickly learned that brakes are grabby when you use the same brake pedal force as you would in the normal car. It didn't take me long to get used to this and learn how to modulate brake pressure at much finer level than what is needed in the regular car. I spend quite a few days on the race track and threshold braking experience helps a lot with mastering this. Another thing that helps is to start braking much earlier to maximize regen, imagine that you have an egg between your foot and brake pedal :mrgreen: .

IMO 2014 Leaf brakes are just fine. The only thing I do not like is the abrupt change of the brake force over uneven/bumpy surfaces, which I think is the result of overly sensitive ABS/Traction control settings.

Either it was addressed in 2014, or we are talking about 2 different things. Brakes are definitely more sensitive, which is fine, all of us are used to that. The issue is that when you are in stop and go traffic, gently pressing the brake pedal can make you and your passengers lurch forward.

 

[TomT]

Same here.

It was my experience with my 2011 that it was much better for 6+ months and steadily got worse again after that.