LEAF advisory group

[DaveinOlyWA]

Got to be honest...this group seems good for Nissan; great for the participants; and maybe good for future LEAF owners. But not so much use to us in the near term. Ever even. I mean, what have we gotten out of a week's discussion in Opamma, other than a few photos to be envious of and the sketchiest of details (and I did wait a week for the participants to "recover" and provide more information before posting this).

Personally I've no confidence in the enterprise, though I wish it's members well and hope they have a great time at Nissan's expense.

Michael, i understand your impatience since most of these issues have been at the forefront for 2+ years, but the visit was basically a meet and greet. Yes, we did have an opportunity to voice some concerns to the top brass and they will need time to digest what we have said but the meeting was not the end game. it was an intro only and that is all it was.

there is much more info that was passed between us and that will come out but most of it is just laying the groundwork for what we need to work on and that is

Price
Range
infrastructure support

then comes dealer retrenching. too many of our problems are rooted there. misleading "100 mile" statements. apathy, charger use issues, etc.

 

[KJD]

Dave it sounds like you had a great trip. Did any of you write up a summary of the topics discussed while in Japan ?

I would be most interested in what was said about improving access to charge stations. Is the goal of 600 charge stations a 50 state strategy or not ?

Thanks,
KJD

Got to be honest...this group seems good for Nissan; great for the participants; and maybe good for future LEAF owners. But not so much use to us in the near term. Ever even. I mean, what have we gotten out of a week's discussion in Opamma, other than a few photos to be envious of and the sketchiest of details (and I did wait a week for the participants to "recover" and provide more information before posting this).

Personally I've no confidence in the enterprise, though I wish it's members well and hope they have a great time at Nissan's expense.

Michael, i understand your impatience since most of these issues have been at the forefront for 2+ years, but the visit was basically a meet and greet. Yes, we did have an opportunity to voice some concerns to the top brass and they will need time to digest what we have said but the meeting was not the end game. it was an intro only and that is all it was.

there is much more info that was passed between us and that will come out but most of it is just laying the groundwork for what we need to work on and that is

Price
Range
infrastructure support

then comes dealer retrenching. too many of our problems are rooted there. misleading "100 mile" statements. apathy, charger use issues, etc.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Charging station ddployment was dis ussed as far as whefe would be the most apprpriate but most importantly was the primary goal of 24/7 access. Now not always possible as the access to power is the main determining factor but it was implied that Nissan would beexertjng more control over the situation

 

[TomT]

I have a hard time disagreeing with any of this...

Got to be honest...this group seems good for Nissan; great for the participants; and maybe good for future LEAF owners. But not so much use to us in the near term. Ever even. I mean, what have we gotten out of a week's discussion in Opamma, other than a few photos to be envious of and the sketchiest of details (and I did wait a week for the participants to "recover" and provide more information before posting this). Personally I've no confidence in the enterprise, though I wish it's members well and hope they have a great time at Nissan's expense.

 

[darelldd]

The burning desire for instant and even retroactive satisfaction is noted.

Our summaries are currently being digested.

For the record, Dave is the only one who had a good time. The rest of us worked.

 

[TomT]

To bad. I work most every day and still manage to have a great time!

For the record, Dave is the only one who had a good time. The rest of us worked.

 

[thankyouOB]

i am pleased that several of you thought it was worth your time and that Nissan treated you as royalty.
i wonder why they thought they shouldnt compensate you for your time, as they would with any other consultant asked for advice, input or to devote time to support their enterprise.
that they hosted you makes it more PR than involvement. So, i think you can see that they are drawing a line, a corporate line in how they value your input and how it will be put to use.

i get that it is a privilege and that you get to see, do and meet people in a setting and manner that otherwise would be completely beyond the norm.
but to me, it is not about the money, it is about respect. in a business relationship, if you value someone's time and opinion, you compensate them. Nissan is not a charity and neither are we donors to a charitable enterprise.
what we do here is profoundly different, as is going to a meeting in AZ or the bay area.

 

[evchels]

i wonder why they thought they shouldnt compensate you for your time, as they would with any other consultant asked for advice, input or to devote time to support their enterprise.

Actually, the lack of compensation for the advisory board members was my recommendation (and I mentioned it in the very first posts about the advisory board in case it was an issue for anyone.) I completely understand your perspective, but I'm also aware of the skepticism that exists around this effort- and wanted to prevent conflict of interest assumptions (e.g., positive feedback about Nissan or the advisory board experience being made only because they were "paid to do so".)

I do recognize that the members are investing time and effort, taking time from family and jobs, etc. Obviously, any traveling will be minimal. From the beginning, I outlined one annual trip- this was it, and while we certainly hoped everyone would join, even it was technically optional. I hope to make other opportunities available for those interested, but those too would be optional. The rest of our core interaction will be virtual, to minimize personal impact on everyone.

However, is completely out of respect for their value that the Nissan team and I co-developed the schedule that we did. I lobbied for a non-fluffy trip that would demonstrate Nissan's interest in and commitment to this group, and they responded with stellar interaction and access to both people and facilities. I believe that serious engagement with the advisory board and, ultimately, acting on their input (and by extension, this community's) is the most credible way to show respect for their effort, and have addressed the Nissan team as in fact being more beholden to this group because its members are not being paid. I feel that way myself, having asked them to participate. But as with many other aspects of this board (and to Mike W's comments), it's going to be a little while before we know whether this is really "working"- and I'm not pretending otherwise.

 

[thankyouOB]

thank you for the timely response.
as to the conflict issue, i refer you to the Unruh quote.
I get that paying folks opens the door to questioning people's objectivity. but we could and probably did ask the same about you, Chelsea, as you are compensated.
but you have, so far, very effectively made clear your bona fides through your actions and thoughtful work.

I still would like to have some better idea about the cost of the battery -- there he goes again -- as well as some clarity on Nissan's work on whether the LEAF's measuring systems remain suspect.
I am seeing some new anomalies in terms of time-to-full charge, as well as miles/kwh.

(i could see nissan providing some expost facto honoraria to the folks who took vacation time and time away from work to do the trip.)

 

[aminorjourney]

I just want to say THANK YOU to the advisory board for taking time out of their lives to head to Japan to do this

Okay, yes, it wasn't exactly hard to get put on a plane and fly over, and I assume they were recompensed appropriately for lost earnings from their day jobs....

But taking out time to do stuff like this, even if you get no financial impact, is tough.

I know that both Jeff and Chels seemed very tired when they returned to their respective homes after the trip. Jet lag is a bitch.

And of course, all the families and coworkers of these folks who let them take the trip too!

Just to say... we appreciate ya

Thank you Nikki but the only compensation we received was a very enriching experience and imho, it was well worth the week off without pay. Wouldnt have traded the experience for anything

Well, that makes everyone's inputs even more valued. You should know that Leaf owners everywhere are thankful

I am really truly happy with how this has gone. Yes, I have friends and acquaintances involved in the board, but I think that the choices of people and the way this has been handled by Chelsea has been exemplarily. If only everyone were as honest!

The group includes many who have been in the EV world a long time, as well as those who are new, but also equally valuable.

I would however, remind Michael and others who feel less positive about the immediate effects of the group that these things DO take time.

The larger the organisation, the longer the changes take. And I think we can all agree that this isn't a side-project for Nissan. I'm not sure what the total investment figures are from the Renault Nissan alliance, but it isn't small change. And by the end of 2013, the alliance will have a total of six EVs on the road around the world. The fact that the advisory board exists can only be good news.

 

[KJD]

How about someone on the advisory group commenting on the Nissan effort to expand the Quick Charge network in USA ?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ok, its a good thing.
Actually one reason why tbey aredoing it is because theyrealized that current public charging deploymentis for themost part not done well. Locations were not chosen wisely.

Also i think part ofitwastohelp establish dominance of chademo over SAE

 

[jrreno]

Will there be an announcement of a comprehensive list of locations?

 

[evchels]

Will there be an announcement of a comprehensive list of locations?

1) @DaveinOlyWa, step away from the tiny keyboard.

2) Jeez, I hope so (have just asked for the latest news on this)- and more specifically, that the community can help weigh in on which ones are chosen.

 

[OrientExpress]

Will there be an announcement of a comprehensive list of locations?

Yes, there will be a proper rollout and announcement sometime after the end of March.

 

[thankyouOB]

we are <10 days away from spring. When do we get the "spring" announcement of battery replacement/install fees?

 

[jhm614]

we are <10 days away from spring. When do we get the "spring" announcement of battery replacement/install fees?

And remember, we are ~100 days till the end of spring... (not being negative, just sayin')

 

[evchels]

we are <10 days away from spring. When do we get the "spring" announcement of battery replacement/install fees?

And remember, we are ~100 days till the end of spring... (not being negative, just sayin')

Totally fair, but still good reminder by OB. Will poke again on this stuff too- and everything talked about in AZ in general.

chels.

 

[TomT]

Not holding my breath here...

we are <10 days away from spring. When do we get the "spring" announcement of battery replacement/install fees?

 

[Nubo]

we are <10 days away from spring. When do we get the "spring" announcement of battery replacement/install fees?

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