Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT

[phr00t]

Pretty underwhelming...

• 40 kWh pack was expected, so no surprise there
• A range of 400 km sounds optimistic, likely more like 375 km (235 miles) EPA
• Styling is nice, like the wider stance - no complaints from me
• No idea why they didn't show the interior in detail, big mistake!
• I personally could not care less about the ProPilot stuff, I like parking
• e-Pedal sounds great, biggest new feature for me
• 110 kWh, 40 kWh battery, 6.6 kW charger - meh!
• No discussion at all markets outside of Japan - do they even care?

Underwhelming indeed, but just as expected. There is no way it will get 235 miles EPA. More like 160. JC08 vastly overestimates range.

It is a 40kWh battery, which if there were no aero improvements, would mean a range of 142 miles EPA over the 30kWh model. If they improved aero by 10-15%, you're looking at about 160 miles EPA, max.

ePedal is just like a Bolt on L mode (I know, I drive one).

ProPilot is pretty basic autonomous features. Something VW & Hyundai have been doing for awhile. Of course Tesla has been doing even better.

Overall meh but hopefully the low MSRP will push EVs further.

 

[ElectricEddy]

Off to the dealer tomorrow!
GM that is :evil:

 

[alozzy]

Apparently, CD is 0.28 and was 0.32 so, assuming a similar frontal square footage, that would be a 14% improvement. Given the faux grill, the frontal square footage has likely also been reduced. It could very easily be 15 - 20% more aerodynamic than the current model. I don't think 200 miles is impossible

 

[2011RedLeaf]

Battery cooling?

 

[alozzy]

Just noticed the 2018 is heavier, that won't help range especially up hills. Bummer...

 

[jhm614]

The new orange/bronze is interesting but make mine all white! Did any one see the yellow w/ black roof combo at the very end? Bumblebee look!

 

[phr00t]

Apparently, CD is 0.28 and was 0.32 so, assuming a similar frontal square footage, that would be a 14% improvement. Given the faux grill, the frontal square footage has likely also been reduced. It could very easily be 15 - 20% more aerodynamic than the current model. I don't think 200 miles is impossible

Even if it had 20% aero improvement (which it won't), that'd be 142 * 1.2 = 170 miles. I believe it is safe to say a 200 mile EPA is impossible. You might be able to squeeze out 200 miles with careful driving, but I can squeeze out 300 miles on my Bolt.

Oh, one thing we are forgetting... weight. Bigger battery = more weight = less range. 155 EPA range is probably about right.

I really was hoping for more... they were the leader of EVs, they should have "wowed" us. They didn't.

 

[phr00t]

Off to the dealer tomorrow!
GM that is :evil:

You won't regret it! Love my Bolt.

Was wishing for some more competition from the Leaf. The EV scene needs it!

 

[MSELeaf]

To say I am unhappy would be an understatement. If the car wasn't 60kWh like the Bolt, at least I was looking forward to highway driving using ProPilot, but now I see that it's limited to a top speed of 62MPH!? That and the fact that they didn't future proof the quick charging speed at all leaves me in a pretty sour mood. I really don't know what I am going to do at this point when my lease extension ends in March 2018. Sigh...

 

[phr00t]

Battery cooling?

Nothing was said about it, so probably nothing was improved in that regard.

I also chuckled a bit when they said no critical battery problems throughout their history... although I guess a class action lawsuit on degradation might not be considered "critical".

 

[phr00t]

To say I am unhappy would be an understatement. If the car wasn't 60kWh like the Bolt, at least I was looking forward to highway driving using ProPilot, but now I see that it's limited to a top speed of 62MPH!? That and the fact that they didn't future proof the quick charging speed at all leaves me in a pretty sour mood. I really don't know what I am going to do at this point when my lease extension ends in March 2018. Sigh...

Do you have a source on that 62MPH limit? I missed that! I expected ProPilot would be all about highway driving...?

 

[magico13]

Air cooling on the battery according to http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112503_2018-nissan-leaf-debuts-150-miles-for-30875-200-plus-miles-in-2019/page-2#image=100620928

 

[edatoakrun]

If this report is correct, then "40 kWh" pack installations in Gen one LEAFs should be feasible.

IF Nissan allows it...

...the 40-kwh battery pack is identical in form factor—fundamentally interchangeable, it sounded like—to the 30-kwh pack of the 2017 Leaf, retaining that car's passive air cooling.

Its cells come from AESC...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112503_2018-nissan-leaf-debuts-150-miles-for-30875-200-plus-miles-in-2019/page-2

The 150 mile range estimate also suggests that pack capacity could be ~40 kWh total, with a smaller (~36 kWh?) available capacity.

 

[GRA]

The front end, while missing the frog headlights of the Gen 1, reminds me of the Clarity (without the vertical daytime LED driving light slots). I'll have to see some in the flesh to confirm, but for now I give the Bolt the nod for looks. Photo at IEVS shows that the rear seats don't fold anything approaching flat, so that's a big fail for me. No battery cooling either, and as GCR notes it is indeed just a re-hash of the existing car, which is especially noticeable around the rear side glass: http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ts-150-miles-for-30875-200-plus-miles-in-2019

The inclusion of AEB for all trim levels is the one advantage I'd give it over the Bolt, along with its price. Other than that it gets a big shrug from me as I don't care about Pro-Pilot, and that's before we see whether it will have a capacity warranty with hard values instead of nebulous bars.

 

[phr00t]

Nissan states it will be 150 mile range:

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/2018-nissan-leaf-makes-north-american-debut

63% of the range of a Bolt.

A Bolt starts @ $37500. Multiply that be 63%, and the Leaf should be starting at $23625 if it wanted to match range per dollar. It doesn't have to match it, because it is in a lower price point... but that isn't "simply amazing"

 

[MSELeaf]

To say I am unhappy would be an understatement. If the car wasn't 60kWh like the Bolt, at least I was looking forward to highway driving using ProPilot, but now I see that it's limited to a top speed of 62MPH!? That and the fact that they didn't future proof the quick charging speed at all leaves me in a pretty sour mood. I really don't know what I am going to do at this point when my lease extension ends in March 2018. Sigh...

Do you have a source on that 62MPH limit? I missed that! I expected ProPilot would be all about highway driving...?

It's in the official USA press release: http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/overview-2018-nissan-leaf

Headlining the new LEAF’s Nissan Intelligent Driving technology are ProPILOT™ Assist, e-Pedal and the company’s heralded Nissan Safety Shield. ProPILOT Assist is a single-lane driving assistance technology. Once activated, it can automatically control the distance to the vehicle in front, using a speed preset by the driver (between about 18 mph and 62 mph)

 

[phr00t]

To say I am unhappy would be an understatement. If the car wasn't 60kWh like the Bolt, at least I was looking forward to highway driving using ProPilot, but now I see that it's limited to a top speed of 62MPH!? That and the fact that they didn't future proof the quick charging speed at all leaves me in a pretty sour mood. I really don't know what I am going to do at this point when my lease extension ends in March 2018. Sigh...

Do you have a source on that 62MPH limit? I missed that! I expected ProPilot would be all about highway driving...?

It's in the official USA press release: http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/overview-2018-nissan-leaf

Headlining the new LEAF’s Nissan Intelligent Driving technology are ProPILOT™ Assist, e-Pedal and the company’s heralded Nissan Safety Shield. ProPILOT Assist is a single-lane driving assistance technology. Once activated, it can automatically control the distance to the vehicle in front, using a speed preset by the driver (between about 18 mph and 62 mph)

ProPilot was suppose to be their "ace up their sleeve", and they seriously limited it. How often are there going to be long stretches of single-lane driving that isn't at highway speeds?

 

[SageBrush]

Only a low price can save the LEAF now, and I still think the car is headed to CARB compliance purgatory. I expected as much but I'm still saddened that it turned out this way.
And they still need to improve the battery warranty. The new Chinese ownership of AESC might be able to sell current battery tech in China but it will not succeed anymore in the US, or Europe for that matter.

Too bad, really,
Perhaps Nissan will try again in the future with a new model and LG or Panasonic batteries. A reboot will be needed.

 

[evnow]

Nissan states it will be 150 mile range:

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/2018-nissan-leaf-makes-north-american-debut

63% of the range of a Bolt.

A Bolt starts @ $37500. Multiply that be 63%, and the Leaf should be starting at $23625 if it wanted to match range per dollar. It doesn't have to match it, because it is in a lower price point... but that isn't "simply amazing"

You should read about why every marginal mile of range has decreasing utility.

 

[jdcbomb]

What would Nissan charge for a 60 kWh battery option? 40K?

And would that mean next year the 40 kWh option becomes 25K?