Leaf Warranty

[EVDRIVER]

I have to admit it would seem much simpler and faster heating to just have a coil that heats air directly

Wonder if we will ever find out why they chose coolant?

A good question for the chief engineer at Nissan on the Leaf

Anyone know his or her name?

They likely have an assembly built for an ICE that they just tap into. I have seen many parts on the Leaf from other Nissan cars, it's simpler to use the existing unit.

 

[planet4ever]

What information is the LEAF logging about battery usage (date and time, length, type of charge, estimated or "apparent" State of Charge, the four highest and lowest voltage cell-pairs, temperatures in the cells before and after charging, etc.)?

Will we have access to any of this data as we use the LEAF so we can better "baby" (care for) our LEAF's battery?

By deduction, I think the answer is that we will have access to the data. The warranty says:

You are required to perform annual EV Battery Usage Report at intervals of 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, and 84 months. These EV Battery Usage Reports can be performed by a Nissan LEAF certified dealer or any qualified repair shop facility.

Perhaps I'm over-interpreting that, but "any qualified repair shop facility" sounds to me like OBD-II readout. I fully expect that some of you electrical geniuses are going to figure how to interpret that data, and perhaps even tell me what magic codes I can use on my ScanGauge to see it myself.

 

[LEAFer]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked, but what is the "EV Battery Usage Report"? How is it generated? What information does it contain? Is this how they will determine if a decrease in battery capacity is covered by the warenty?

Who agrees with me on the following ?

In order to evaluate the meaning of the battery usage report one needs a baseline. So, I recommend/suggest that a battery usage report be created at time of delivery. Of course, there would/should not be any significant "usage", but then again, depending on what all is in the report, to avoid a future dispute, I'd like to see a "baseline" at the point when Nissan hands me my vehicle. It's not quite as simple as the initial odometer reading ...

 

[planet4ever]

In order to evaluate the meaning of the battery usage report one needs a baseline. So, I recommend/suggest that a battery usage report be created at time of delivery.

It sounds like you are thinking of a battery state report rather than usage report. My guess is that an initial report would mostly contain zeros, since I'm envisioning the report as a dump of a bunch of counters and maybe a few max and min values.

 

[LEAFfan]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked, but what is the "EV Battery Usage Report"? How is it generated? What information does it contain? Is this how they will determine if a decrease in battery capacity is covered by the warenty?

The "EV Battery Usage Report" is a document generated at a Nissan dealer every 12 months as required to maintain the warranty. What it is to be used for, or how, remains unknown, so far as I know. In any event, a gradual decrease in battery capacity is specifically not covered by warranty. On the other hand, maybe the Usage Report will provide a baseline for a "sudden decrease in capacity", whatever that is, that would be covered. But without an event like a battery fire, I'm doubtful there will be any warranty coverage of the Li battery.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Gradual capacity loss does not mean excessive loss or sudden loss, so yes, I guarantee you that kind of loss would be covered. Gradual loss is expected, excessive or sudden isn't.

 

[LEAFer]

In order to evaluate the meaning of the battery usage report one needs a baseline. So, I recommend/suggest that a battery usage report be created at time of delivery.

It sounds like you are thinking of a battery state report rather than usage report. My guess is that an initial report would mostly contain zeros, since I'm envisioning the report as a dump of a bunch of counters and maybe a few max and min values.

True, it might be all zeros due to (probably) no usage. But we still don't know what all it contains. And the only way to know for sure, and to avoid disputes, is to PROVE to me that at month 0 "everything" (whatever in the report that is) was at status "X" (zero or whatever).

Otherwise, if at 12 months they tell me something like "xyz blah blah" there's no way to DIS-prove that it was a "pre-existing" condition. ( I know ... that still sounds like "state" not "usage" ... but depending on the parameters ... (i'm repeating myself). )

Edit: For (unlikely) example: some idiot tech plugged it into the QC twice or more ... or it inadvertently was exposed to high temps ... or ...

 

[LEAFfan]

Yes, the major disadvantage is weight, and then the component count and complexity.

It is very inefficient, if you want to do a quick defrost or get a quick blast of air it takes lots considerable kw to heat the coil which heats water (cold or otherwise) and then it must be circulated by and electric pump and then it must all be heated to a temp high enough to warm all the cold parts in the system and the heat exchanger hot enough to then transmit the heat from a blowing fan. To make this process not take an unbearable time you must throw quite a bit of KW to speed it up. With resistive you get massive heat in about four seconds. It will defrost or warm you in an instant rather than minutes. If you just need to defrost with the radiant system it's like warming an entire car up, a waste of time and energy.

The major advantages of this "complex" heater system are:

1. There is a thermal mass that can be pre-heated.

This is a marginal benefit for most and it still wastes energy. It helps cold climate people a little but also has drawbacks for them.

2. The high voltage is not "exposed", so is safer if the car floods or people try to service the heater area. This "safety" issue might have been a BIG concern for Nissan.

This is not a safety issue, it is switched by a relay and there are plenty of HV lines in EVs, if you are under water you are under water and all is exposed. You can't get to the unit easily and it won't shock people.

3. The resistive heating can be a simple, energy-efficient ON/OFF, with no need to "regulate" the current to the resistor (which would waste energy). Yes, faster ON/OFF switching could be used, but perhaps Nissan wanted to avoid that "rapidly" fluctuating load on the main battery. Maybe they use a mechanical relay to turn it ON and OFF?

Marginal again, and the heat elements are self regulating due to the resistance increase when heat goes up, it works well when done properly, which is not difficult at all.

4. The thermal mass gives a more uniform heating effect.

You won't notice this on a proper system.

One word to solve all those 'problems'...PREHEAT (while the car is charging).

 

[LakeLeaf]

In order to evaluate the meaning of the battery usage report one needs a baseline. So, I recommend/suggest that a battery usage report be created at time of delivery.

It sounds like you are thinking of a battery state report rather than usage report. My guess is that an initial report would mostly contain zeros, since I'm envisioning the report as a dump of a bunch of counters and maybe a few max and min values.

A few months ago I thought Nissan said that delivered Leafs would likely have an unusual number of miles on them for a new car, as they intended to do some more extensive test driving of the cars before shipping.

 

[garygid]

Yes, I agree, an initial battery (capacity, usage, etc.) evaluation and report should be part of the "delivery time" documentation, with date, time, mileage, listing of all cell voltages, evaluation of cell balance and State of Charge, evaluation of Battery Capacity, charging history, temperature history (stored for 2 weeks at freezing?), driving history, etc.

Wuthout that, ANY first year capacity loss could be called "expected".

So, I agree, an initial "Report" should be made. Ask your dealer if they can, are willing, and will make that "Report" as part of their pre-delivery preparations.

 

[Jimmydreams]

A few months ago I thought Nissan said that delivered Leafs would likely have an unusual number of miles on them for a new car, as they intended to do some more extensive test driving of the cars before shipping.

I've never seen that. In fact, I specifically told my dealer that my Leaf better have less than 10 miles on it when I get it....in other words, don't even think about sitting on MY car for a few days and using it as a demo vehicle. He assured me they wouldn't try that. :twisted:

 

[gasmiser1]

A few months ago I thought Nissan said that delivered Leafs would likely have an unusual number of miles on them for a new car, as they intended to do some more extensive test driving of the cars before shipping.

I've never seen that. In fact, I specifically told my dealer that my Leaf better have less than 10 miles on it when I get it....in other words, don't even think about sitting on MY car for a few days and using it as a demo vehicle. He assured me they wouldn't try that. :twisted:

-----------------------------------------------
+1 on that, Jimmydreams

 

[garygid]

Yes, I read the "extra miles" thing somewhere, but cannot remember where.
I think it might have been in the Nissan Ordering "fine print" somewhere.

I would rather have Nissan test things "more than normal" before they turn over each new LEAF.

So, miles could be over 10, but probably just Japanese "miles", so, like dark chocolate, they don't hurt anything.

 

[palmermd]

Yes, I read the "extra miles" thing somewhere, but cannot remember where.
I think it might have been in the Nissan Ordering "fine print" somewhere.

I would rather have Nissan test things "more than normal" before they turn over each new LEAF.

So, miles could be over 10, but probably just Japanese "miles", so, like dark chocolate, they don't hurt anything.

If you cant substantiate it, why do you perpetuate it?

 

[LEAFer]

Yes, I read the "extra miles" thing somewhere, but cannot remember where.
I think it might have been in the Nissan Ordering "fine print" somewhere.

I would rather have Nissan test things "more than normal" before they turn over each new LEAF.

So, miles could be over 10, but probably just Japanese "miles", so, like dark chocolate, they don't hurt anything.

If you cant substantiate it, why do you perpetuate it?

I found an MS-Word document into which I pasted information during the ordering phase on 31Aug2010. Part of the "Disclaimer" ( or whatever you want to call the info presented ) which Nissan made you accept in that process said:

IV. Vehicle Maintenance & Warranty
As an electric vehicle, the Nissan LEAF has unique features, service requirements, and safety risks that require specially trained technicians and some specialized equipment.
• A. Warranty: All warranty repairs may only be completed at a certified Nissan LEAF dealership. Not all Nissan dealers may be certified. The closest certified Nissan LEAF dealership may be located farther away than you would prefer.
• B. Mileage at Delivery: Your Nissan LEAF’s proper operation will be tested by Nissan after production and your vehicle will therefore be delivered with some mileage reflected on the odometer and some battery use with minimal capacity loss.
• C. Li-Ion Battery Checks: Nissan recommends regular periodic maintenance, including two required Battery Checks to be completed by a certified Nissan LEAF dealership at intervals of 12 and 24 months at no additional cost to you. Performance of recommended maintenance, including the two Battery Checks, is a condition of your vehicle’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

 

[garygid]

Thanks for the "rescue", LEAFer.

 

[EVDRIVER]

All cars have some miles, they are driven at docks, etc.

 

[LEAFer]

I am wondering about how many miles, though. The 7-10 that seems typical ? Or more like 20-50 ?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I am wondering about how many miles, though. The 7-10 that seems typical ? Or more like 20-50 ?

Under 10. Usually 3-5 from what I have seen on all my new cars. The Leaf is briefly tested on a dyno and would be moved a bit at the factory, docks and transport. It's an EV , it's not like someone will over rev the motor, or mess up a non-existent break in period.

 

[garygid]

Nissan might be trying for a "zero-defect" initial rollout and be putting some (all?) early LEAFs through road-tests of all systems (except airbag deployment )?

 

[sparky]

Heck, even the Volvo I picked up at the factory in Sweden had 4 mi on it.
Anything under 200 is fine with me.