Looking at used Leaf and drowning in battery degradation

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rick64

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
5
2012 Leaf SL with 46k miles, dealer listing at $7800 in CA Bay Area.

my commute to work s 15 miles round trip. will be charging at home.

Battery shows 10 bars. haven't tested using LEAF Spy.

what exactly is the battery warranty - 60k miles/5 years? I have seen some say it's 100k/8 years. how concerned should I be about have to replace my battery.

this Leaf seems like a good deal compared to other listings in my area.

(dealer also has a 2013 Leaf S with 36K miles listed at $8900 with 11 bars)

thanks for any help
 
60k/5yrs

15 mi commute is easily doable in that car. I have a 2012 SL and love it (got mine cheap too).
 
Firetruck41 said:
If it doesn't get to 8 bars before 5 years/60k miles, plan on about $6500 to replace the battery when the range is to too low for your use.

that's my concern. need to get a better reading of the current battery capacity.
 
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192 (5 years/60K miles, whichever comes first
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168

8 year/100K is a battery defects warranty (e.g. bad cell or something wrong inside the pack or car won't move due to something in the pack) and does NOT cover capacity loss.

You should look at Ahr, Hx and SOH numbers via Leaf Spy and confirm that the VIN and mileage match up. IIRC, my odometer is about 1 mile off from Leaf Spy.

Also, you should use Carfax and Autocheck to confirm that the car's never been in a serious accident nor totaled and to get an idea where the car resided in. Hot climates == massive battery degradation.
 
If the 13 has the QC connection it should has the 6.6 charger, That with the lower miles and longer warranty my be a better deal. check all with leaf spy.
 
I suggest that you look for an 11 bar inexpensive '13, or a cheap 11 bar '12 Leaf. With your commute you should be ok even with 10 bars, or nine. I'm talking about actual capacity, though, not one about to lose a bar.
 
Being in the Bay Area, a car with even a 6-bar loss should still be able to make that commute. I wouldn't worry about purchasing a car with 10 or 11 bars in your situation. You'll be fine for years.
 
garsh said:
Being in the Bay Area, a car with even a 6-bar loss should still be able to make that commute. I wouldn't worry about purchasing a car with 10 or 11 bars in your situation. You'll be fine for years.

With the pre-'13 leafs especially, it's "use it or lose it" - meaning the capacity goes away from plain age almost as much as heat.
 
Firetruck41 said:
If it doesn't get to 8 bars before 5 years/60k miles, plan on about $6500 to replace the battery when the range is to too low for your use.

which may be never if he has a 15 mile commute.

And misleading for multiple reasons.

You can do 15 miles on 3-4 KW which could be done on a car with only 4 bars.

If the car has 10 bars and say 80% SOH and it lost 5% SOH per year it'd be 8 years from now before it'd be an issue for that commute. If it lost 10% a year it'd be 4 years from now before that would be an issue.

You don't think in 4-8 years from now he won't be able to buy a newer used EV for under $6500? You don't think that there will be any sort of aftermarket battery solution cheaper than $6500? You don't think there won't be a Nissan offer cheaper than $6500?

There are used 2011 and 2012 leafs in several states for $6900 right now. How cheap will they be in a couple of years after 60 kWh EVs are common?

I can't believe anyone in 4-8 years from now would pay for a new 24 kWh pack anywhere near the price you mention.

That'd be like saying don't buy a used iPhone 6 or Samsung Galaxy 6 because you'll have to replace it in a few years. Why would that be a valid reason not to use it in the mean time?
 
dhanson865 said:
Firetruck41 said:
If it doesn't get to 8 bars before 5 years/60k miles, plan on about $6500 to replace the battery when the range is to too low for your use.

which may be never if he has a 15 mile commute.

And misleading for multiple reasons.

You can do 15 miles on 3-4 KW which could be done on a car with only 4 bars.

If the car has 10 bars and say 80% SOH and it lost 5% SOH per year it'd be 8 years from now before it'd be an issue for that commute. If it lost 10% a year it'd be 4 years from now before that would be an issue.

You don't think in 4-8 years from now he won't be able to buy a newer used EV for under $6500? You don't think that there will be any sort of aftermarket battery solution cheaper than $6500? You don't think there won't be a Nissan offer cheaper than $6500?

There are used 2011 and 2012 leafs in several states for $6900 right now. How cheap will they be in a couple of years after 60 kWh EVs are common?

I can't believe anyone in 4-8 years from now would pay for a new 24 kWh pack anywhere near the price you mention.

That'd be like saying don't buy a used iPhone 6 or Samsung Galaxy 6 because you'll have to replace it in a few years. Why would that be a valid reason not to use it in the mean time?
I am really confused as to the negative response to my post? My post was very simple and factual, for a reason. I would leave the choice to the OP. Personally, sounds like it is a viable option for the OP, but he asked some questions, and I tried to provide some answers.

Here are the answers I provided, and a little explanation of each...

1. Length of capacity warranty: 5years/60k miles
2. Battery cost: To the best of our current knowledge, if you need a new battery it costs ~$6500. Things could change in all kinds of ways in the future, but if you plan to shell out $6500 for a new battery, you won't be disappointed.
3. you only need to "replace the battery when the range is too low for your use". Written exactly that way for a reason. It is variable based on the OP, and his future circumstances. Could be in 4 years, could be in 15 years depending on battery degradation and required use/commute.
 
Firetruck41 said:
I am really confused as to the negative response to my post?


1. Length of capacity warranty: 5years/60k miles
2. Battery cost: To the best of our current knowledge, if you need a new battery it costs ~$6500. Things could change in all kinds of ways in the future, but if you plan to shell out $6500 for a new battery, you won't be disappointed.
3. you only need to "replace the battery when the range is too low for your use". Written exactly that way for a reason. It is variable based on the OP, and his future circumstances. Could be in 4 years, could be in 15 years depending on battery degradation and required use/commute.

Well I didn't see your post as something intended to be negative and I didn't intend for my post to be seen that way either. The OP said "how concerned should I be about have to replace my battery." and I chose to respond to your post instead of his because yours had some solid info but deserved to be fleshed out more, Looking back at it I should have started and/or ended the post differently to show it wasn't an attack on you but just probing questions meant to add to the discussion.

As to how a negative tone might have slipped in, In this highly political world we live in there is a concept called "spin" and another called "FUD". The cost of replacing the battery pack in the leaf has been used as a negative hanging over prospective buyers heads since before the first car came out of the factory.

Any discussion of price of replacing the pack needs to be tempered by a realistic expectation that you might not ever actually replace it.

1. The car might get totaled in an accident before you need to replace the battery pack.
2. The battery pack might not ever degrade enough that you need to replace it.
3. Nissan might replace the pack for free preventing you from needing to pay for a pack.

then has to go down the path of trying to figure out when someone would replace the pack

then has to go down the further path of trying to figure out what the cost would be when that day comes.

The way I see it any discussion of pack replacement prices should be in a pack replacement thread. If I were bringing it up in a thread like this I would put a disclaimer in front of it about how unlikely it'd be that you ever pay the current price and then link to another thread that has all the arguing about the price in it.

I'm not sure there may have been 1 or 2 people in the world that have paid the full retail price of a pack. 99% of the pack replacements have been free. Of the pack replacements that have happened I don't think $6500 is the number I remember but maybe I'm wrong on that. I didn't think it was worth finding those cases and tallying the charges.

I hope you understand I'm replying not to highlight a negative but to give more information about why the situation is more positive than just saying a replacement pack today costs $xxxx.

It's so rare a thing I've been googling to try and find the threads here of the one or two people that have done it and I haven't found it yet. If I had would have put URLs in the first reply that you thought sounded negative and mentioned the price vs your $6500. As is I don't know what they paid.

Think about it like asking how much it would cost to replace a 20MB hard drive in 1984. Back then that was a $4000 hard drive or some insane number. But it might never die (most did, but one might survive until now). If someone needs to replace it today they can buy a $50 ssd that would have GB of space and be infinitely faster. Focusing on what the replacement cost is on the day you buy something ignores the price drops that are coming. It's why people consider it smart not to buy insurance on some electronics like TVs because by the time the warranty expires the replacement is likely to be way cheaper than the original.

Nothing negative about that, just needs to be considered.
 
thanks for the all the help, links and for this forum. helped me a ton. :D

we made the decision on a 2013 S, 11 bars, 32k miles. Car was coming off lease, been in Northern California since birth.

It's perfect for our needs and we got it at the price we wanted $8,000.

looking forward to adding my details later to the forum.

Appreciate it. :!:
 
Congratulations! $8K is a good price. It's good to see some of us low mileage drivers getting a break. You should be good for many years with the range. I just wish I had gotten that deal back in 2011 ;)
 
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