Nissan: “We Were Arrogant” about Electric Car Market

[scottf200]

Nissan: “We Were Arrogant” about Electric Car Market
By Brad Berman · December 17, 2012
http://www.plugincars.com/nissan-execs-admit-arrogance-ev-125738.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nissan is reassessing its electric car program after failing to achieve its sales targets for 2012. For most of this year, Nissan executives refused to admit that it would not double last year’s sales—even when the sales pace indicated fewer (rather than more) sales than in 2011. Automotive News today is quoting Al Castignetti, Nissan vice president for sales: "We were a little bit arrogant as a manufacturer when we went to the 50-state rollout." Castignetti spoke with Automotive News in late November. "We had assumed that there were people just waiting for the vehicle who would raise their hand and say, 'Give me a LEAF, give me a LEAF, give me a LEAF.'"
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Still Aiming High for EVs
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The company's job now is to assess its missteps, and evaluate how to regain momentum with electric cars. "We didn't prepare our dealers properly,” said Castignetti. "We've pulled back a little bit and are telling our dealers, 'You don't market this car traditionally. You don't put it in the newspaper. You need to go and find the electric car buyer in your market.'"

The running ticker on Nissan's site shows that LEAF drivers [worldwide] have now covered in excess of 113 million miles.
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I've never seen the ticker above mentioned ever (a link to it?). Volt's currently at 109 million miles. USA as far as I know. And 75%-80% who have signed up for OnStar. http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Without charging infrastructure, and withour plans for future, I need EV that is able to do 100 highway miles, and assurance(warranty) of battery capacity retention. The one promised by Mark Perry 80% capacity after 100KM will work great.

 

[Nubo]

Learning and moving forward. That's good news. Still the only viable serious mass-market BEV in the game.

Wonder what their advertising and evangelizing efforts will look like at the corporate level to drive buyers to the showrooms. Most dealers don't have the time or resources to "go and find" buyers for a low-volume model.

Seems to me Nissan spent a lot more on advertising the car when there were few or none available to buy...

 

[mwalsh]

Arrogance is fine. I like arrogance. Arrogance I can deal with. But I also need to see firm commitment, and ongoing communication, especially when things aren't so rosy. Nissan has always been spotty on the communications front, even before we had bloody cars. And now that things aren't going so well, the silence if deafening.

Hell, if Nissan hasn't been able to come up with a firm plan on f**king hybrids for the last 3 years, how can we expect any better when it comes to EVs?

 

[jackal]

Their mistake is not having various battery pack options like Tesla. If they had a battery pack for 300 miles (even at $70,000), the media won't be able to pounce on the "range anxiety" bad publicity. And lack of QCs won't be a issue because consumers have option to buy bigger battery packs if they know they needed a bigger range.

 

[evnow]

Their mistake is not having various battery pack options like Tesla. If they had a battery pack for 300 miles (even at $70,000), the media won't be able to pounce on the "range anxiety" bad publicity.

You can't put a 300 mile pack in a compact & still have usable space in the car.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I agree and charging infrastructure is what people think they need, when in reality, it's more range, maybe not 300 miles, but definitely more than the Leaf has currently. All charging infrastructure with current Nissan technology is relatively slow. A 3 hour trip can easily turn into a 6+ hr trip, even when all the QC's are working. Also, I think it's fair to say that Nissan's attempt to go without TMS has failed in various shades of gray and extreme from the warm regions of the country where accelerated range loss is moderate, to the hottest where it is severe and totally unacceptable. they either need to include TMS or dramatically improve the battery, not tell people to drive less, LOL! Honestly, it's going to be easier to sell people on TMS than to improve the battery without TMS and try and say "no, really, we figured it out this time" since that is what they said about the original Leaf. oh, and of course a real battery warranty is a must. Until Nissan offers a long or even medium range EV with TMS, and a meaningful warranty, sales will be flat, IMHO as they now have a credibility gap to overcome along with all the challenges of convincing people to go EV. Price is not nearly as important as value to a lot of the early adopters, a lot of us would have paid more for more range and more stable battery performance.

Their mistake is not having various battery pack options like Tesla. If they had a battery pack for 300 miles (even at $70,000), the media won't be able to pounce on the "range anxiety" bad publicity. And lack of QCs won't be a issue because consumers have option to buy bigger battery packs if they know they needed a bigger range.

 

[dgpcolorado]

You can't put a 300 mile pack in a compact & still have usable space in the car.

I think the LEAF is more of a mid-size car than a compact, although I could be wrong about that. Certainly the interior space gives that "feel". The LEAF seems to be about the same size as a Prius; isn't that considered a mid-size car? By contrast, the Volt is a pretty cramped ride (and has hard, uncomfortable seats, to my surprise, having driven one on an eighty mile trip).

I agree that the LEAF doesn't have the space for a 300 mile battery pack with current technology.

 

[jackal]

You can't put a 300 mile pack in a compact & still have usable space in the car.

They don't have to restrict themselves to compact design if this is in the initial requirements.

Anyhow, I suspect that compact is not even the issue. If you see their other EVs in various forms, (vans, infiniti) which are way bigger, the battery pack remains pathetic and there is no bigger range options.

 

[pksd1]

One of the reasons an average person thinks so highly of Tesla (other than its great looks) is that they think the car costs $50,000 AND it goes 300 miles. Most don’t bother to check that $50k car does not go 300 miles. With an option of smaller and bigger battery pack on Leaf, Nissan too can create this perception (although it might be misleading) that a $25k car (with a smaller pack) can go 200+ miles(larger pack). At least that would have people re-consider the Leaf again.

As of right now people think $36,000 car goes only 75 miles and I am better off with a Tesla, a false perception but still enough to turn people off from Nissan Leaf.

 

[jackal]

One of the reasons an average person thinks so highly of Tesla (other than its great looks) is that they think the car costs $50,000 AND it goes 300 miles. Most don’t bother to check that $50k car does not go 300 miles. With an option of smaller and bigger battery pack on Leaf, Nissan too can create this perception (although it might be misleading) that a $25k car (with a smaller pack) can go 200+ miles(larger pack). At least that would have people re-consider the Leaf again.

As of right now people think $36,000 car goes only 75 miles and I am better off with a Tesla, a false perception but still enough to turn people off from Nissan Leaf.

Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

actually, most folks I've mentioned our Tesla reservation to seem to think the Tesla is $100K and don't realize the base model is $49 K after rebate. Even with the high cost, a remarkable number of folks are still interested because it dazzles in pretty much every way. For $49K you get a super sexy car, 160 miles per charge and without the dramatic fluctuations you get without TMS, you also get 0-60 mph in 6.5 seconds and an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty, that time shows, Tesla will actually stand behind rather than redefine as they go along. Nissan needs to understand their market the way Tesla understands theirs.

One of the reasons an average person thinks so highly of Tesla (other than its great looks) is that they think the car costs $50,000 AND it goes 300 miles. Most don’t bother to check that $50k car does not go 300 miles. With an option of smaller and bigger battery pack on Leaf, Nissan too can create this perception (although it might be misleading) that a $25k car (with a smaller pack) can go 200+ miles(larger pack). At least that would have people re-consider the Leaf again.

As of right now people think $36,000 car goes only 75 miles and I am better off with a Tesla, a false perception but still enough to turn people off from Nissan Leaf.

 

[pksd1]

Tesla has and will have problems of their own especially when (WHEN?) they start to sell these cars.

actually, most folks I've mentioned our Tesla reservation to seem to think the Tesla is $100K and don't realize the base model is $49 K after rebate. Even with the high cost, a remarkable number of folks are still interested because it dazzles in pretty much every way. For $49K you get a super sexy car, 160 miles per charge and without the dramatic fluctuations you get without TMS, you also get 0-60 mph in 6.5 seconds and an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty, that time shows, Tesla will actually stand behind rather than redefine as they go along. Nissan needs to understand their market the way Tesla understands theirs.

One of the reasons an average person thinks so highly of Tesla (other than its great looks) is that they think the car costs $50,000 AND it goes 300 miles. Most don’t bother to check that $50k car does not go 300 miles. With an option of smaller and bigger battery pack on Leaf, Nissan too can create this perception (although it might be misleading) that a $25k car (with a smaller pack) can go 200+ miles(larger pack). At least that would have people re-consider the Leaf again.

As of right now people think $36,000 car goes only 75 miles and I am better off with a Tesla, a false perception but still enough to turn people off from Nissan Leaf.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...and an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty, that time shows, Tesla will actually stand behind rather than redefine as they go along. Nissan needs to understand their market the way Tesla understands theirs.

This assumes that Tesla will be around in eight years to do the warranty work. While I am hopeful that will be the case, it is by no means certain.

 

[Herm]

You want more range?.. you need to increase energy density, the new NMC chemistry promises this. At least offer the option and see what range people are willing to pay for.

 

[Stanton]

...and an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty, that time shows, Tesla will actually stand behind rather than redefine as they go along. Nissan needs to understand their market the way Tesla understands theirs.

This assumes that Tesla will be around in eight years to do the warranty work. While I am hopeful that will be the case, it is by no means certain.

+100...there is NO DOUBT AT ALL that Nissan will be here should I need to use my extended warranty.

 

[abasile]

Options to add another 25 or 50 miles of EPA range seem do-able, and could be very attractive. Remember, the RAV4 EV and the 40 kWh Tesla S don't support fast charging.

 

[TomT]

As long as it is not for battery capacity :lol: ...

+100...there is NO DOUBT AT ALL that Nissan will be here should I need to use my extended warranty.

 

[TomT]

Interestingly, Tesla seems to be accelerating deliveries. A co-worker placed a reservation for a S a week ago (Performance model) and he got a call yesterday that he should have it as early as April...

Tesla has and will have problems of their own especially when (WHEN?) they start to sell these cars.

 

[cwerdna]

You can't put a 300 mile pack in a compact & still have usable space in the car.

I think the LEAF is more of a mid-size car than a compact, although I could be wrong about that. Certainly the interior space gives that "feel". The LEAF seems to be about the same size as a Prius; isn't that considered a mid-size car? By contrast, the Volt is a pretty cramped ride (and has hard, uncomfortable seats, to my surprise, having driven one on an eighty mile trip).

I agree that the LEAF doesn't have the space for a 300 mile battery pack with current technology.

Per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32154&id=31767&id=31765&id=32092" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (under the Specs tab), the Leaf is considered a mid-sized car.

Agree w/the other points re: space.